Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

More on the theme 'green' than 'God' but interesting, nonetheless.

Peter Garrett has ruled out a tax on electronic goods:

Consumers won't be taxed for recycling electronic goods such as computers, TVs and mobile phones.

Instead the federal Government will look at developing policy to encourage consumers to dispose electronic waste in a proper manner...

Mr Garrett parried on the question of introducing legislation to make e-recycling mandatory, as it is in most developed nations worldwide. Generally, a modest levy is imposed on the purchase of electronic items; the money is used by manufacturers to collect and responsibly dispose of the equipment they sell.

My 'developed nation' has such a tax here and it is not really all that expensive. The additional charges (known as eco participation) are levied on product categories, for example:

• Mobile phone: €0.10
• Laptop computer: €0.30
• Blenders, toasters, small kitchen applicances: €0.50
• Microwave oven: €2.00
• Washing machine: €6.00
• Fridge: €13.00

As a rough guide, the bigger the item the more you pay and the cost corresponds to the cost of recycling that product. The imposition is not great - adding 10 cents to the price of a mobile phone probably wouldn't prevent most people purchasing the phone - and even for the products with a high eco participation charge (fridges, TVs) the products have a very long life. You might pay €0.10 for a mobile every couple of years but your fridge could last you a decade or more.

While it's rather easy to be all for a tax/surcharge in Australia when I won't be paying it, the imposition of the eco-participation charge in November 2006 hasn't really driven the economy backwards. It has, however, provided funding to cover the costs of recycling electric goods. Perhaps Peter should have a re-think.

Fascism keeps emerging through ecologism. It is a real and present philsophical danger as it attempts to inflect environmental thought with ugly, anti-humanist, racist and sexist dogma. It informs the scientifically literate but socially maladroit writing of Edward Goldsmith as much as it does the out and out ugly lifeboat "ethics" of Garrett Hardin.

Even our very own Tim Flannery has not managed to escape the pernicious influence of ecofascism having succumbed to the absolutely irrational Gaia hypothesis.

For your information and delight below is a quote from Ernst Lehmann Biologischer Wille. Wege und Ziele biologischer Arbeit im neuen Reich, München, 1934, pp. 10-11. Lehmann was a professor of botany who characterized National Socialism as "politically applied biology."

We recognize that separating humanity from nature, from the whole of life, leads to humankind’s own destruction and to the death of nations. Only through a re-integration of humanity into the whole of nature can our people be made stronger. That is the fundamental point of the biological tasks of our age. Humankind alone is no longer the focus of thought, but rather life as a whole . . . This striving toward connectedness with the totality of life, with nature itself, a nature into which we are born, this is the deepest meaning and the true essence of National Socialist thought.

My own position is that I'm all in favour of creating a sustainable and livable planet with as many species on it as it may be possible to save both for their ecologically necessary role and simply for the sake of the life they represent. But I will not kiss the ass of anyone's god to do that. I have too full a knowldge of the madness of the Crusades, the madness of militant Islam, militant Hindu nationalism and the fascistic roots of certain elements of ecologism to buy into that one.

Further reading on ecofascism at a long standing and superbly researched website titled Ecofascism: Lessons from the German Experience

Roger, sadly as a typical apologist who lives in a delusional dream of primitive fear and superstition, your post makes as much sense as watching a sewage outfall whilst on a picnic. You follow a mythical god who you say without evidence, it created everything but doesn't care about its followers and the destruction they are causing, yet supposedly is a god of love, peace and caring. Yet yahweh describes himself in exodus as the god of war and emulates that in every action he undertakes. I grew up in a very religious family of church officers and preachers, I can assure you I have read both fairy stories along with the interlinear Greek and Hebrew. Unlike most god slaves, I studied the history, chronology, archaeology and anthropology of the yahweh cults. It's a complete load of crap, borne out by the last 2000 years of monotheistic war, genocide and ecological destruction. Make all the excuses you want, but the facts are clear, god is a primitive myth, followed by those with unevolved primitive minds hell bent on satisfying their greed and gluttony at any cost. You make out you know this god personally, but the truth is you don't, as the only verifiable evidence for god is the more than 2000 year ongoing yahweh cult war against every living thing. This has brought the planet to the state it currently is at, disaster and ecological collapse. Sensible people with a brain, would see allowing something to be destroyed that you made, by those you made and who worship you, is stupid irrational and illogical. But you do believe in god so it's understandable, love, caring, logic and rational actions don't fit into religious life. The new testament make no sense at all and is easily proven to be false and plagiarised from earlier mythological and cultural works, just as you will find the OT stories in earlier cultural works. Nothing changes in the NT from the OT, revelations is filled with the threats and diabolical outcomes yahweh has in store for people who don't believe in him. Where's the love in that, unless as a true christian, mental and finally physical violence is part and parcel of your mental make up, which they describe as love. Religious people lives are hypocritical, contradictory and false. If a god can't stand up and stop the destruction of his creation, then it is not a god of love, but of fear. In reality it is a non god, just a myth and the unevolved primitive minded religious use this fairy tale as an excuse, so they don't have to be responsible for their actions and outcomes. You can't expect anything else from those who prefer fiction to fact. But as a god fearing person of love, what are you doing Roger, to alleviate the negative effects of religious humanity on the planet, buying shares in Halliburton.

Scott: I think another, less hurried reading of Roger's post is in order.

As a follower of the living Christ (Christian does not cut it any more, anyone who loves dogs, cats, country and pie gets that label) , I am bemused by this new psuedo-alignment of religion and ecology.

Personally I don't think that God gives two hoots about saving this planet.

Firstly some heavy theological lifting (please note if you are a non-believer then this will be all bollocks to you so don't bother commenting. Hello Alga). God embodies all the omni-attributes. He made the whole shebang. He knows how it plays out. He endowed free will so that He did not need to micro-manage our affairs. If we stuff up (as He already knew we would) then that's the plan my friends. Of course, free will means that we can make a difference to each other but not to the all-knowing God.

Scientific guesstimate - of every living species that ever existed 99.9 percent are now extinct. All that shows is that we have a very careless God who does not give a rat's, or dinosaur's, anus about whether anything survives on this planet. What He invented was a DNA engine that spews out new species as the old ones get mulched by some horrible happenstance, Yep, the species do die horrible deaths, in human terms that is. An animal or plant would not indulge in that perception.

So what does He care about. Read the New Testament and you'll be amazed to find that what He cares about is us but not in the cutesy-wootsey BS way that passes for religion. God indeed loves us. Our problem is in finding out who "us" is and it ain't our body or the lovely environment we cherish. God, the maker of this planet, is no respecter of mankind or the rest of DNA-kind. Woops, one slip of a continental plate and 250,000 people are dead along with countless plants, insects and animals.

Get the message, if you want comfort and soppy happy endings and a God that will tuck you into bed each night, go see a movie. If you want to save the planet do so but lets keep religion out of it.

 Hey, remember how India doesn't have to cut carbon emissions because it's "developing" but Australia should cut carbon emissions because we're "developed"?

Not any more apparently...

"A headline on news site Rediff.com said: "Hayden calls India a Third World country', and Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) finance committee chairman Rajiv Shukla said the comments were "completely uncalled for".

"If slow over rate is your habit, why blame India for that and call India Third World? We are a very prestigious nation and it was not a nice comment by him," Mr Shukla said.

In response, Australia has been labelled "no more than a village" and described as being 100 years behind India.

Perhaps India's Gods should pull their weight on carbon emissions, then. I mean, they've got heaps more of them in their village than we have in ours.

I can handle the truth (sometimes) F Kendall, but thanks for being so understanding. As such I shall continue to keep on trying to the very best of my ability. Maybe that's what god intended me to do. Cheers.

"trying - in all sorts of ways".

I can see your point, Justin Obodie.

I didn't want to say it myself.

"I feel quite confident that you can cope."

Thanks F Kendall; I'm trying - in all sorts of ways.

I doubt you could get many religious to change their approach to life and do something positive for the planet, after all they expect to be forgiven when they die for their destructive approach to life, so to them it doesn't matter, god will take care of it. Nature will have it's way in the end and no mythical god will change that.

The human race is about to decline very rapidly, sperm counts collapsing, morbidly obese mothers and children, heavily processed diets saturated with chemicals, additives and dripping in fats and oils, produce coated in poisons, or bred to resist and absorb those poisons. Religious war sweeping the world and the bizarre impossible, constant economic growth global market and village delusion being propped up against the facts and tide of change.. What other outcome can there be, but ecological and biological collapse.

There is much talk about environmental and climate issues, but I bet very few if any, have actually changed many things in their lives which will make a difference. Religion is a contradiction in fact and terms, so you can't expect the followers to act in any other way than hypocritical contradiction. That's all it's history consist of, as for the leaders of religion, I think their real history gives the answers and it's just another hypocritical contradiction.

What can I do, Justin Obodie?

Goodness me. Quite a lot, actually: but, also possibly not quite enough.

As for you, it's up to you. I feel quite confident that you can cope.

Isn't is wonderful fellas, it would appear our lovely ladies are not to keen on a sex ban. Just the way it should be.

Yep, I believe you are correct Kath, sperm counts are falling all over the show and  the Y gene is getting weaker.

Maybe one day women won't need males to reproduce and males will simply become the plaything of women - just the way it should be.

F Kendall, being naughty has been a life long adventure - sadly I can't help myself - but what can you do?

Justin Obodie, you are such a naughty person.

I've read your comment on several threads, that you are "not your brother's keeper".

I have no doubt that you know that this is a quote from the first murderer, Cain...and  I recall those words from "Emerald City":  "the world is given over to the evil sons of Cain."

As it seems to be.  

Is that your intention, ambition and justification?

Justin: "we could have tiny cars " What about the potomac? (heart sinks.)

And, no sex??? (sputters!)

Have you taken leave of your senses, Jus? Pour yourself another scotch , man!

Personally, I think that nature will take care of it. You do know that sperm counts all over the world are decreasing as we speak!

Nah god ain't green. Everyone knows god is white. And when god smiles we see all colours revealed as rainbows in the sky.

Except of course the infra red and ultra violet bits - but albatrosses don't know about that stuff.

PS. God spends a lot of time upside down - for a reason I have yet to learn.

Now that we have settled that let's make the necessary adjustments to society to mitigate human involvement in climate change. Taking it as fact we humans are playing a major role in Earth's (possible) demise.

The answer is simple: get ride of humans or reduce the number of humans on the planet to a low impact number.

Or we could breed smaller more economical humans. But that would take yonks for us to get down to a size of around 3 foot tall or smaller as required. Think about it - we could have tiny cars and tiny homes and there would be lots more room for everything - and we could all get drunk really cheap. A dead cat would feed a whole family.

Sooner or later for the sake of the greater good and Planet Earth humans are going to have to breed regressively.

Maybe god should ban sex for twenty years. I wonder what colour that would make god?