Webdiary - Independent, Ethical, Accountable and Transparent
header_02 home about login header_06
sidebar-top content-top

And the fight goes on: New "leadership" for the NSW Liberals

This article first appeared in New Matilda on 4 June 2008. Thanks to Webdiarist Irfan Yusuf for permission to republish.

And the Fight Goes On
by Irfan Yusuf

In war and politics, it's always a good idea to keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

So it shouldn't surprise anyone that Liberal right-winger Nick Campbell and left-winger Michael Photios agreed to jointly lead the troubled NSW Division of the Liberal Party, after its three key office holders - President Geoff Selig, Vice President Rhondda Vanzella and Treasurer Robert Webster - resigned last week.

The question is: will these two be able to put old factional feuds aside and work together to defeat Morris Iemma?

Campbell is a former convenor of the NSW Young Liberal Right and a former staffer/protégé of Bill Heffernan. I first met Campbell during our student politics days at Macquarie University, during which time he ingratiated and infiltrated the hard-Left. Campbell's pseudo-Green ticket managed to get at least one Liberal elected to the Union Board with hard-Left preferences.

Campbell's ability to ingratiate lefties came in handy within the Young Libs, too. In the period between the fall of the Fahey NSW government in 1995 and the ascent of John Howard to the Lodge in 1996, Campbell became convenor of a faction known as "the Team". This loose coalition consisted of conservatives and ex (Liberal) lefties such as Peter Phelps, as well as Vanzella.

Back then, Vanzella orchestrated one of the biggest political coups in NSW Liberal Party history. She took a former ALP member and used him to knock off a sitting shadow minister in the safest Liberal seat in NSW. But this wasn't any old ALP member. This chap actually boasted into a megaphone of having "never voted Liberal in my life!" Appropriately, he is now Federal Opposition Leader.

Following Howard's 1996 victory, Nelson rewarded Vanzella with a job in his office. Campbell too was rewarded, commencing work with the factionally unpredictable Senator Bill Heffernan. Unlike Heffernan, Campbell doesn't shoot his mouth off in a politically incorrect (or indeed inept) fashion. Like his old boss, he is not averse to ratting even on his own.

Tracy Ong's sources in the most recent Weekend Financial Review described Campbell as "a pragmatist, a 'medium-C conservative' ... [who] could use the presidency to launch a career in federal politics." One former Federal Liberal candidate described Campbell to me in these terms: "If there are five candidates in a preselection and four have a chance of winning, Campbell will make sure all four think he's backing them."

Michael Photios is a former Young Liberal President and a former minister in the Fahey government, which was unexpectedly defeated by Bob Carr in 1995, despite the Libs gaining a higher primary vote across the State. After the abolition of his seat of Ermington after the 1995 NSW election, Photios (known unsentimentally as "farty-arse" to his factional opponents) won preselection in Ryde, but was soundly defeated by former Gladesville MP John Watkins in the 1999 election.

Unlike many in the small-"l" liberal faction, Photios is a staunch monarchist. Even outside Parliament, he has had substantial influence, playing a role in negotiating a cross-factional deal to install Peter Debnam as leader after John Brogden stood down in 2005.

Iemma is trying not to sound worried, declaring: "It is still a party at war with itself as you've seen from this week, and they've done nothing to stop the war."

He might well be right. After all, neither the current State nor Federal Liberal leader were able to stop Selig, Vanzella and Webster from walking. With Howard gone, the Libs no longer have a strong leader to keep Campbell and Photios from stabbing each other in the back.

[ category: ]

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Liberals and puppets

More condemnation for the Liberal Party and their useful puppets, various organisations like the AFP is found in today's report in the Australian about the outrageous actions of the AFP over Dr. Haneef.

This should frighten everyone and let them see how out of control the Coalition has been over the past eleven years under Howard. A daily mantra of "good economic management" when the opposite was happening, and a trashing of so many rights plus using any tragedy (when not participating in it) like the Tampa, Siev X, and the illegal Iraq invasion, to hold power.

This party should remain – for everyone's sake – out of power for at least two terms. At present they are acting like a bunch of pathetic schoolchildren led by a nonentity. The reduce everything to the same level and wonder why no-one is taking them seriously.

Thus an idiotic nightclub table incident takes on the same importance as oil prices which directly impact upon everyone and constitute a real crisis.

The NSW state party is no different with Barry O'Farrell fuming at the mouth about "cover-ups" over the hapless Della Bosca when there are so many real fronts on which to attack the Iemma / Carr government.

And no-one need think the AFP or, indeed, most police services are any different in their actions over Dr Haneef. Spend a day with a criminal lawyer and you will hear hair-raising stories about the way these organisations go out of their way to deliberately exaggerate evidence or omit inconvenient facts.

They get away with because of compliant politicians. Look at the NSW example – police minister David Campbell, another toad in a long list who will use any tactic to divert attention from their own failures.

Carr taught them well while Howard had the Liberals spellbound like dopey rabbits.

You missed the point, Eliot !

If translators get it wrong the first time, how do we know they aren't reporting incorrectly each and every time? Or just sometimes? I don't speak Iranian and I doubt you do.

And those who do say there are actually no such words in Iranian that translate into English as quoted in Ahmadinejad’s original speech and that western translators had ignored terms that mean something entirely different.

It's nothing to do with ignoring what he says, it's about the slack reporting of the media and how when one lie is printed and repeated then it becomes a "fact" that is dug up over and over.

Your analogy to the PR industry is apt though, as that is what the media seems to rely on now - a variety of Public Relations officers for their "news". That is why you can pick up any daily newspaper in this country and read a police press release just rewritten by a "staff reporter" and it's virtually repeated word for word in every outlet which now incudes the ABC.

They no longer bother to check facts - they often don't have the time and or are even allowed as they are under pressure to simply fill pages. Any government department handout will do. Any private organisation with something to flog will get a guernsey.

And I will give you an example that doesn't involve politics but could apply: I have an old friend who was instrumental in the UK music industry many years ago - Simon Napier-Bell. I met up with him recently in Sydney when he was here to promote his three successful best-selling books about the music industry.

In the past month numerous stories have flooded the internet, UK, US newspapers and scores of film & music magazines about proposed films being made on singers whose careers he was involved with - Dusty Springfield, Marc Bolan and George Michael from Wham. His name is always mentioned as being involved with the films and they vary from him either getting George Michael's permission or not, producing the films and so on.

I'm in regular email contact with him. He isn't involved in any of the projects, has never said he was, but is more than happy for the free publicity as he's working on a fourth book - although he's being plagued by dozens of messages from journalists wanting to talk "about the films " he's supposed to be working on.

Self perputuating rumours that take on a life of their own.

But it gets even more bizarre as I attend a function last week at the Sydney Museum when they launched their new museum guide. I ran into a reporter I had met briefly a few years ago who supplies several UK dailies with a variety of show biz style stories.

And during the conversation it turns out it was he who has written the tale of Mr Napier-Bell's new film career and had it published in six UK newspapers from where it emanated outwards in a spiral world-wide - yet he can't quite remember where he first got the tip.

He's happy - he was well paid. Mr Napier-Bell's happy as he wants the publicity. But the truth is completely skewered.

The final twist comes as - after all the publicity - Mr Napier-Bell now tells me he is actually working on a film project, but nothing to with those reported and something that eventuated out of all the misinformation. Now the rumours have become self-fufilling.

Just like the Iraq War.

When the client doesn't cooperate

Michael de Angelos: "A perfect example is President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s original speech (despite anything he has said recently) where it was claimed he said Israel should be wiped from the map."

Despite anything he has said recently?

 In other words, despite the fact he keeps saying it. Despite attempts at explaining it away. Despite it our advise to shut up about it.

It's so bloody inconvenient how Mahmoud keeps on say it over and over, seemingly indifferent to the terrific effort being put in by his apologists to cover up the previous outbursts. Despite anything he has said recently.

That's the trouble with the public relations industry. You can advice your client to not burst forth with his stupid opinions - but he will likely keep on doing it.

Israel threatens to attack Iran

Eliot, talking about stupid opinions:

A top Israeli official has said that if Iran continues with its alleged nuclear arms programme, Israel will attack it.

As Israel, Iran and the US sling threats at each other it reminds me of children calling each other names in the school yard.

It would be a joke if it wasn't for the lives at stake.

More important than hacking!

PS: Scott, it just goes to show that you cannot believe everything you read.

The world seems to have accepted the internet-and weirdly, Wikipedia, as some source of truth. If it's printed there it must be true. Without putting down Eliot Ramsey he demonstrates that by pointing to it as a source because it sites the BBC, ABC etc as sources themselves. This is how the lie spreads – from source to source with each repeating it until it becomes fact.

A perfect example is President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s original speech (despite anything he has said recently) where it was claimed he said Israel should be wiped from the map. He said no such thing as numerous Muslim scholars have desperately tried to correct – but like a wild-fire it spreads unchecked.

Another could be the recently "bombed Washington" Al Quaeda ,new video threat reported world-wide including by the ABC. The work of some university students ( which shows me there is hope after all with a new generation).

One must read Flat Earth News by Nick Davies for a good examination into how this process has been corrupted – not by me, but by those in power: the media owners and politicians along with compliant journalists or those who simply give up and just work for their wage because they have no choice.

Wikipedia may be a good starting point but unless one then investigates further they risk reprinting complete tosh – which is a bit unfair as many journalists aren't even given the time for fact checking these days. Still, if something goes out under their name then they just have to work harder.

Indeed, I relish the day if one of my bits of mischief makes it into print in the main media (and who knows if it hasn't?). It will prove my point.

The only thing that puzzles me is when I see what is reported about the non-event of the year in Avoca – do those reporting it believe it or are they incredibly dumb and just "talking heads"?.

Worse are the political reporters whose stance changes from week to week to reflect a mood rather than the truth, or perhaps to justify their own existence.

If you are in doubt-just Google any political pundit like Glenn Milne and see how their views do complete somersaults over the course of months.

What next? Missing tapes?

Michael de Angelos: "Even as I watch the television news this morning, it's not particularly the Belinda Neal fiasco in itself, it's the substance of the whole affair (or lack of it)."

Call me old fashioned, but I remember a time when if a Minister of the Crown or Member of the Federal Parliament mislead parliament, swore false declarations or offered threats it was considered a matter of substance.

And now there's this...

"Mr Iemma's failure today to deny knowledge of the withheld statutory declarations puts him and his office at the heart of the scandal."


Even as I watch the television news this morning, it's not particularly the Belinda Neal fiasco in itself, it's the substance of the whole affair (or lack of it).

Cast your minds back to Howard's first term and the appalling conflicts of interest that emerged with several Howard ministers after his pompous claim he was "raising the standards" of conduct and then did exactly the opposite – refusing to remove minsters who had breached those standards.

It's the reporting and beat-up of this petty affair that should disturb everyone.

As for bullying, the Liberals really risk an almighty backlash over this if Labor decides to retaliate. The well documented incidents of Lord Downer's bullying and actions against those working in either his department or our embassies abroad if they incurred his wrath just show that Labor should have gone for the throat years ago.

The perpetual twisting of facts is even more confusing. Does the Opposition understand how Parliament works, or do they think the majority of people don't ?. Kevin Rudd can do nothing about Belinda Neal whatever the circumstances – she is an elected member and a backbencher. What are they asking for – a stern look at her from Rudd? It's about all he could do.

It would have been a bad look for Labor to have taken government and immediately launched investigations into the numerous Liberal party fiascos (AWB etc) that occurred under Howard. They need to establish themselves as the legitimate government first while the Liberals get over their self-imposed shell shock of losing so badly .

One Crikey reader put it perfectly about the two sitting out their terms while we pay for their job seeking efforts – Downer and Costello – perhaps the private sector is not as enamoured with Costello as he believed they would be. That about concurs with everything I heard from business leaders during his tenure.

Is there an Opposition?

Surely the country deserves something better than the ratbaggery being displayed by the Opposition in both NSW and federally.

The childish beat-up over a dinner seating arrangement is now making a complete mockery of both Parliaments – along with the irresponsibility of the media continuing to milk every drop of blood out of this non-event.

Nothing will happen about the statuary declarations. If Neal's companions are all saying they did not hear her swear (as appears the case) that is the end of their involvement They cannot be accused of not hearing something.

If the waiters stick to their story and it cannot be shown they colluded in compiling their statements – then it's a "she said – he said" affair that will never be resolved.

But the media continues to insult us with their one-sided reporting. They dismiss Chris Hartcher's JP party worker's attempts to contact him and Hartcher responding, but beat up the mere hint of any Labor involvement.

The whole affair stinks of political chicanery and who gives a tinker's cuss over what the hell went on. The only villains I can see are a bunch of lily-livered waiters who over-reacted to what a woman might or might not have said.

As for referring to Neal to a "disciplinary committee" – another stunt that will go nowhere. The Opposition are simply wasting everyone's time and our taxes. There were no calls to refer Senator Heffernan who accused and completely misled Parliament over Justice Kirby to any committee. His was a far greater sin as he was accusing the judge of criminal activity on falsified documents and gossip (not that he’s any stranger to making false accusations).

You may also remember he got Peter Debnam to falsely accuse Labor AG Bob Debus of being investigated for similar activities just before the last state election. Nothing will happen to Belinda Neal – there will be no "disciplinary " ruling. She has apologised – end of story.

But the bias is staggering now that it appears Neal responded with her "demon" taunt after Sophie Mirabella hurled a few choice words herself.

The Opposition – both state and federal – are acting like a bunch of schoolyard chumps.

And could someone translate this piece from today's SMH website (which took three people to write!) with the ridiculous heading ;

Iguanas witness cover-up

by Dylan Welch, Alexandra Smith and Andrew Clennell

"At the Premier's insistence, Mr Della Bosca addressed Parliament yesterday but said he could not use parliamentary privilege to Ray Awadallah, of course, could not make the scandal go away. Nor could Della Bosca. Now the stood-aside minister is hiding behind the police investigation to avoid telling the public what really happened.'

Sounds like they wrote it after a night at Iguana Joes!


Oh please Scott Dunmore, don't deny me little bit of fun. I only do it to people I think are extremely pompous or friends – a couple have busted me. Nothing very serious – it's a way of seeing how long it takes for silly titbits to be noticed.

Remember – I'm a bored old retired and nosey pensioner now who has to occupy his time somehow.

Although reflecting on Joe Orton and his delicious habit of altering library books sometimes with very raunchy pics and passages – he did get arrested for it and was beaten to death by a friend in the end!

Bernard Keane is onto something – little bits of interesting information are just filtering out. Such as the fact that the JP who signed the Stat Decs contacted the Liberal MP Chris Hartcher first.

Why do I feel we are seeing the great Rudd / Brian Burke luncheon beat-up being repeated with the capacity to backfire badly?

Hackers and others

Well Michael, after my last post you can add me to the pompous list but I do get annoyed with vandals. Never beeen able to understand the mentality of very clever people deploying their talents to such ends. Well, yes I can and it's not a pretty sight.

Whether or not this Neal affair is a beat-up remains to be seen but not too many people are rising to her defence and she has form on the board for abusing her position. Being left of even Gillard, you can't accuse me of bias.

The problems are only starting

Scott Dunmore, maybe that's the answer. Mr Rudd, though, isn't economically neo-liberal just yet.

Another problem with "cost of living" increases are the unforeseen (for economic morons) problems it creates. With the seemingly Australian penchant for selective targeted welfare, and rampant 'cost of living" prices, you'll begin to see workforce participation problems arising - actually they've already began.

The latest unemployment data points to a rise in unemployment, almost exclusively in the female ranks. I'd put good money on those females being exclusively of the duel income variety (without the information). Naturally this was lost on any economic journalist comment I read (many mildly curious reasons were given though).

Given I'm almost certainly correct (I've had that habit) this trickle will become a flood that finds its way into the next set of data. Most of these economic illiterates by then may have asked some questions - though that's not a certainty by any means.

Any reasonably helpful economist should at least have some experience in the employed ranks outside of academia and government. A working person would pick up on the female anomaly without too many problems (doesn't have to be an economist).

Failure of economists not having levels of "worldly" experience can be seen in the actions of Dr Bubbles Bernanke. Once he and those Wall Street sharks got together; he never really had a chance. Allowing incentives to make major loses without punishment, sheesh! What did he expect?

Who knows what people think

Michael de Angelos: “Paul Morrella: we really only have two Conservative parties at the moment but I'd suggest that Labor under Kevin Rudd is actually more conservative but only in the way the Liberals should have been.”

Mr Rudd generally seems like he wants to be neo-liberal. He seems to be constantly talking the talk or at least trying (perhaps it depends on the audience, I don't know). It does make the seemingly support of him at this site all the more bizarre – being as the site generally seems to take a rather dim view of things economically liberal. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something?

Scott Dunmore: Paul, I agree with you about Rudd's credentials but rather than missing something I suspect you're reading too much into the sentiments expressed.

I think it's generally accepted that the "left" has had no political currency in Oz or anywhere else for a long time.

Maybe it's a case of old allegiances dying hard. The flag goes up and the salute is a spontaneous reaction.

People generally receive as much as they deserve

Michael de Angelos: “While Aussies may not the process at how petrol prices are arrived at, the do know that we have no control over them apart from the government taxes.

I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of price is tax?

And for all Brendan Nelson's huffing and puffing and various political reporters egging him on, the polls clearly show the issue of knocking a few cents off a litre isn't the answer.

It's more than a few cents because price rises are passed on to other products. You'd also measure the savings annually. It'd add up to a little more than a few cents; hence, the term cents is used.

It's a con job, and government and, unfortunately, business are passively complicit in it. Whilst they (business) continue to gain subsidies (various and many all round the world), they'll continue to keep the peace. Mark down another reason a meaningful carbon tax won't see the light of day. Business isn't planning on just giving away many of these subsidies, now is it? Governments are surely not planning on giving away their milking cow, are they? All this "easy money" is really becoming a little climate change self defeating.

Gasoline is a component of almost every product – what better way is there to place a disproportional tax on something (that'll pass along in price), and be taxed again, and again, which enables governments the pretence of low taxes? Just another reason why the wealth divide (all round the world) will continue to grow. That's not a good thing.

Reputable sources?

Eliot: "You will note that the Wikipedia item is footnoted and referenced to a range of perfectly reputable sources. What specifically in its account of the events surrounding Brogden's resignation and subsequent suicide attempt do you dispute, anyway? "

BBC, ABC, SMH – perfectly reputable sources? I think not. They all take their "news" packaged by a couple of agencies like AP now(when not simply rewriting press releases from PRs or government agencies) and do little fact checking. There is hardly a need for individual TV networks or newspapers anymore when they all act in unison (but I'd miss the BBC bonnet dramas).

I don't dispute the fact that Brogden resigned. I suggest it was forced. And I suggest his attempted suicide demonstrated a far more sensitive man who was done wrong by!

Didn't give a tinker's cuss for John Brogden

Michael de Angelos: "Eliot Ramsey, you need to come up with a better source than Wikipedia! Why do people believe this public accessible "encyclopedia" is the font of all wisdom and information?"

You will note that the Wikipedia item is footnoted and referenced to a range of perfectly reputable sources. What specifically in its account of the events surrounding Brogden's resignation and subsequent suicide attempt do you dispute, anyway?

Or perhaps the more succinct BBC account of the events is not to your liking?

You say "Many saw Brogden as an alternative to Carr's Labor"?

Sure. Coalition voters, perhaps.

But let's not pretend for a moment that anyone on the left of politics gave so much as a tinker's cuss for John Brogden.

Some people will write anything

Eliot Ramsey, you need to come up with a better source than Wikipedia! Why do people believe this public accessible "encyclopedia" is the font of all wisdom and information?

One day I'll alert you to the small pieces of mischief I've planted on that site – amongst friend's entries and others. Some are still there three years later – it's my own Joe Orton moment. The pomposity of those who run and read it deserve nothing less.

With no wish to go over John Brogden's fate, it was the far-right of the Liberal Party that manufactured the fall of Brogden using his own lapse in judgement (ie: drinking with media and believing that some tragic journalist at the SMH would remain "off the record").

As for Carr's press conference on his home doorstep condemning Brogden about his "Malaysian" comment, it merely confirmed everything I had believed about Bob Carr for the last 5 years of his premiership: he was a man who would use anything and everything to political advantage. The appropriate response for anyone of substance under the circumstances would have been to make no comment.

Do always remember – it was Carr who quite deliberately and foolishly ignited a racial debate about "ethnic" gangs long before Cronulla. This was a campaign leapt upon by the Daily Telegraph with glee and it never let up. One day it was bound to explode (with help from Howard).

And there is no need to point to Carr's numerous own appalling lapses in judgement when this former journalist, apparently ignorant of the law – despite being one who makes it, repeatedly condemned and commented on persons alleged to have committed crimes before they had even appeared in court. Sometimes it really does help to have those in parliament to have a legal background.

Indeed, Brogden was the only person to finally emerge from the whole sorry sage with any dignity.

You are quite wrong to always believe this myth that the "left" somehow moves as one organic unit. Many saw Brogden as an alternative to Carr's Labor which is still with us in the form of Morris Iemma itching to flog off anything not nailed down – and won't the Macquarie Bank be there at the sell-off! If Bob Carr had been a MP in the UK or USA, his smooth move from premier to banker would have meant a jail term.

Paul Morrella: we really only have two Conservative parties at the moment but I'd suggest that Labor under Kevin Rudd is actually more conservative but only in the way the Liberals should have been. Howard acted like a right-wing reactionary whose role in life was to mould Australia in his own image. Perhaps Rudd as the true conservative will reduce some taxes (or re-arrange them more fairly) to counteract the highest taxing government in the history of Australia: John Howard's.

While Aussies may not the process at how petrol prices are arrived at, the do know that we have no control over them apart from the government taxes. And for all Brendan Nelson's huffing and puffing and various political reporters egging him on, the polls clearly show the issue of knocking a few cents off a litre isn't the answer.


"One day I'll alert you to the small pieces of mischief I've planted on that site"

Michael, I'd counsel you against such declarations, they could well serve to lower people's opinion of you.

If you had a point to prove it has been well and truly proven and given the spirit in which the site was set up, you should have, by now, taken it down which I urge you to do.

Anything less will expose you to the charge of indulging in idle, mischievous, conceit.

All of us, unless privy to specific information or eye witness to events have anyway of being sure of factuality, relying on third party sources of information to make an informed opinion and the more the better.

We reject information that does not fit with our preconceptions and a favoured method is to attack the source rather than employ logical discipline.

Here endeth the lesson according to Saint Scott.

BTW, I've never seen any "wisdom" on Wikipedia.

Intermediate variables? Trust bloody academics; they'd find complications in a game of two up. Was Al Gore involved in that?

Oh, how we wept for John Brogden....Puh-lease

Michael de Angelos: "The day they stabbed John Brogden (who would have been premier today) in the back was the day the music died for the state Coalition."

Hang on. Just to refresh our memories...

John Brogden came under fire for offensive behaviour at a function in Sydney on 29 July 2005. He allegedly described Helena Carr, the Malaysian-born wife of former NSW Premier Bob Carr, as a "mail-order bride". Fully, Brogden said Bob Carr could "ship his mail-order bride back to where she came from, for all I care". Brogden later publicly apologised for this remark. He was also accused of unwelcome sexual advances to two unnamed female journalists at the same function (ABC's Lateline reported that he "propositioned" one journalist, and pinched another's buttocks). Brogden alleged that Young Liberal Alex Hawke was responsible for leaking information to the media.

There were widespread expressions of support for John Brogden at that time from the "progressive" side of politics during that episode, were there? Like, from prominent members of the Labor Left faction, were there?

Give me a break. I recall almost ceaseless daily gloating over it up to, and even after he tried to suicide.

But, since you are on it, remember this:

"John Brogden stepped down as leader of the Liberal Party in New South Wales state after insulting the wife of former state premier Bob Carr.

"I acted dishonourably and now is the time to act honourably," he said.

Yeah. Like I can see Morris Iemma doing that, can't you?


Some people will believe anything

Michael de Angelos: “And even the dopiest of Aussies really do know who controls oil prices – even if they aren't quite up on how interest rates work.”

Most people (in the world) have absolutely no idea about how oil prices come into being (including a lot of economic journalists). They've even less of an idea of how the final retail price is struck. The conflating of world wholesale prices, with national retail prices, is the work of political opportunists for the mass consumption of economic illiterates.

The assertion that governments have no control of retail prices is easily disproved. Simply measure a basket of various national retail prices (currency adjusted). If "most people" know their stuff (and governments are hapless victims) prices can only be equal across the world board. Who feels like a wager on the outcome?

The Conservative party is correct talking about decreasing taxes. Decreasing taxes is always a good thing. It also sets an early stand against ludicrous, and self destructive carbon taxes (that's got to be an eventual political winner). I find it hard to believe this could be the reason for their failing.

Of course it makes a difference if the tax is decreased by say ten cents, even if oil continues to rise. It'll mean that it's ten cents cheaper then it otherwise would've been. Not only that, prices of other products will also be cheaper (there's an oil component in almost everything), then they otherwise would've been.

What's happening across the western world is a classic case of a tax, on a tax, partly feeding into prices (wait until carbon tax, sheesh). Yes, and it's also helping feed into inflation - which of course will result in a number of nasties including higher interest rates. How fortunate for Australia, "most people" also know how interest rates work, fortunate for the present Australian government that is.

First published in the Herald

"Sophie Mirabella is such a gentle lass that in her former life as Sophie Panapolous she called Judi Moylan, Russell Broadbent, Petro Georgiou and Bruce Baird parliamentary terrorists for having the gall not to want to lock up child refugees any more.

Me thinks Sophie better think about those leopards and spots and a few pots calling kettles black before she gets too far up the ladder to that high horse."

I am particularly proud of that second sentence but I guess the delectable Sophie wouldn't like it much

Now the Daily Terror are reporting that it was Chris Hartcher who put the staff up to the stat decs when his dopey staff rang him about the non-event.

The first - er - second - er - stone...

I agree with you about Mrs Mirabella, Marilyn; nevertheless Ms Neal can hardly be sanctified yet. Bernard Keane's observations in today's Crikey are interesting:

At some point, possibly not in the very distant future, the furore over Belinda Neal is going to come back and bite a Coalition MP in the backside.

Neal may be one of the less pleasant individuals to grace our halls of power but the microscopic attention to which she has been subject in recent days suggests she’s achieved notoriety beyond that of even violent criminals. Annabel Crabb’s piece today summed up the hysteria perfectly.

Even The Australian thinks things might have gone a bit too far. Perhaps it was the Telegraph’s recounting of unfounded gossip from neighbours of Della-Bosca and Neal that appalled even The Oz.

For an opposition that’s run out of petrol on the issue of ... um, petrol, "Iguanagate" (whatever will we do if there’s ever a political scandal involving Bill Gates? We can’t christen it Gatesgate) has been manna from heaven, or wherever manna comes from. The puffed-up self-righteousness of Joe Hockey in arguing the toss with the Speaker yesterday over whether questions about Neal should’ve been allowed was extraordinary coming from a senior member of a former Government that systematically trashed parliamentary accountability.

But the referral of Neal’s comments about Sophie Mirabella’s forthcoming baby to the Parliamentary Privileges Committee is particularly absurd. Neal stupidly denied the remarks – denied them aggressively – but later withdrew them. Anyone want to suggest she’s the first politician to deny saying something offensive?

As for Mirabella, her contribution to Australian politics since arriving in the House of Representatives seven years ago has consisted pretty much entirely of abuse pitched across the chamber from her backbench bunker. Some Coalition frontbenchers are no better. Earlier this year we saw the undignified spectacle of Peter Dutton and Steve Ciobo shrilly mimicking Justine Elliott while the latter answered a question at the Dispatch Box. It was like watching some teenage boys taunt a female teacher. Utterly charmless.

And people might want to compare and contrast Neal’s behaviour with Senator Bill Heffernan’s efforts over the years, inside and outside the Senate.

But never mind. Standards have now been lifted. There’s a higher bar for all Parliamentarians to get over, not merely for the way they behave in public, but for the standard of their contributions in Parliament. In eagerly pursuing Belinda Neal, Opposition MPs have lifted expectations. Neal isn’t the only dumb, aggressive politician in the place. Having been savaged for failing to meet this new, higher standard of behaviour, at least Neal will have the privilege of sitting back and watching some of her tormentors fall at the same hurdle. It will happen.

I hope he is right.

Close the door on the way out

It will come as a terrible blow to Glenn Milne and Denis Shanahan as they continue to write-off Kevin Rudd in a variety of bizarre ways.

Tuesday Newspoll has poor Brendan at 13% and the Coalition at 41%. Oil and Belinda Neal just aren't doing the trick either federally or for NSW.

Poor Barry O'Farrell (and Christopher Pyne and his desperate plea to call in the Feds on Belinda). They just don't get it, do they? The public lapped up the Iguanas "scandal" with the depth they give a Paris Hilton escapade.

And even the dopiest of Aussies really do know who controls oil prices – even if they aren't quite up on how interest rates work.

We deserve a better Opposition at both levels.

And I'm beginning to really like Belinda Neal.

Bel Neal

Michael, someone who takes on Sophie Panopticon / Mirabilis (delicious story, that) can't be all bad.

The Libs should just pack up

They haven't a hope of winning the next state election nor do they deserve to. That doesn't mean of course we deserve Morris Iemma or Michael Costa but as they won't be around come the next state election, a new Labor team will easily win against an utterly useless and divided Liberal Party.

The day they stabbed John Brogden (who would have been premier today) in the back was the day the music died for the state Coalition. Barry O'Farrell – who seems a decent chap – is, let's face it, a non event. Anyone who can't get the better of Morris Dilemma isn't ever going to run NSW.

His frothing at the mouth over the great Iguanas "scandal" shows a desperate pollie who thinks he can also ride the dangerous tail of an orchestrated tabloid campaign without receiving a sting. It will be gone and forgotten within a month – just as Mark Latham's book touted as a 'shocking ' inside look at the ruminations of the Labor Party was claimed to sound the death knell of its chances of winning a General Election, sank without trace, so will O'Farrell's investment in the Della Bosca / Neal saga turn to bite him badly.

You always have to read between the lines and even in a gutter rag like the Telegraph, ever so slight facts emerge to shine a new light on a matter. Such as the mention today that it was the manager who pulled out a stack of stat dec forms and had the waiters fill them in (which somewhat neuters John Della Bosca's quite correct dealings with the manager to word an apology – a common event especially when there is a possibility of legal proceedings) and then called a JP who by mere coincidence was a Liberal Party staffer.

As sensational as it has been over the past fortnight, including the amusing story today of a former Hell's Angel frightened of Belinda Neal's dog, the fake scandal had less than a week's life in it with the public and its continuing mass ADD (attention deficit disorder) unable to soak up much more and anxious to move on to a new sensation.

The likely outcome and my prediction (no need for the wife this time): the Iguana's story will continue to crumble (plenty of hints there with the manager "wishing it was all over") as inconsistencies begin to show up in staff stories. The matter will come down to a complete over-reaction caused by one person thinking they could make capital out of, indeed – "do you know who I am" people. Someone will crack but it won't be hardened politicians who know how rough it gets.

O'Farrell has invested so much in this along with the Telegraph and the once quite good SMH that he has forced silly Morris to sideline Della Bosca – and in doing so Iemma has cut his own throat ( and O’Farrell’s at the same time).

Iemma will be gone in six months and a new Labor team will be in place (including Della Bosca as a minister) with two years in which the general public won't even remember where Avoca is let alone the "scandal".

Belinda Neal's image will simply just get better as people turn ( they always do) and begin to see her as a gutsy woman.

I wonder if waiters on the Central Coast are on AWAs ? I would suspect so. Sadly they will find that becoming pawns in a plot usually means you are the first to go, as in any game of chess.

And still no cables from the UN

Well, Yammer looks like a bigger dope than ever but can't see how O'Farrell blathering on has helped him any.

After all, not one of the letters seems to have been about that $300 million to Saddam Hussein.

Being mentioned in despatches

This thread is rapidly going off-topic.   In the current climate almost understandably but since I have been mentioned and have, as a commentator, been absent for a while I should, on this issue, throw a few bob in.

First, it is interesting that Mr Yusuf  felt fit not to contribute here first.

Secondly, reverting to the essence of the thread, it stikes me that it is no more than a  petty clash of personalities.   Lord knows (and he was one of my great-grandfathers) we've all  had enough of those.    As is well known to Webdiarists, Malcolm Bligh Turnbull and I detest one another.    That does not stop me thinking he would be an effective Prime Minister even though I believe he will never manage to achieve it.   Nor does it stop me admiring his abilities in debate or recognising his faults.   People are people after all and we all carry a lot of baggage.   Some of us make it more public than others.

As to Iguanagate (and despite not acknowledging it, the SMH got it from me first) Belinda and I were at Law School together.   I had just come out of the Army and she had just come out of school.   The only memories I have of her are that she was very much connected with the right wing then {a Richardson relative never much seen since and i don't mean to suggest there was a sexual connexion because Belinda - well, gels, [cop the flack you're about to say it] actually looks better these days - seen her campaign - what would we call that in the Taxation Reform Party (NSW) Inc? flutes.}  All we could do with her in the 80's was put her in the back of the chorus in Law School Revueus - by golly f----- gosh she could kick even then.

It causes my sense of malice pleasure that these long enemies of mine are now getting it in the neck despite reasonable attempts on my part to propose compromise - the detail of that can wait for someone's memoirs or the release of Cabinet papers - and I have been thinking of sending a photo of myself to Belinda for her freezer.

Yet, back to the thread itself.   If MBT and I were able to find a vade mecum, and we could with clenched teeth (and have in the past) why cannot Mr Yusuf find it?

After all, a Party in disarray is only ever a Party that lets someone know.   Usually, in my experience, for it's own factional purposes.

Now, if either major Party would like me back in an Upper House seat with free licence to speak my mind - well, you all know my number.

It's #2 that makes smoke.

Gave up smoking almost 20 years ago.

 Cheers, aye.



Ah, Malcolm B...

All is not well in Her Majesties colony, NSW, and its once-lively little capital Sydney, in particular.

For years, now.  Even the rest of the nation in spades now collectively looks on as it has for quite some time. The serried ranks daily emit an almost daily frustrated collective tired sigh . If NSW was Victoria, or  Tasmania, or  even  the US,  it wouldn't matter.

They'd only be buggering themselves up.

 But  Australia Major is compelled by new forces to the conscious realisation that the universe revolve around the nation's gateway, as an increasingly a sort of cloaca maxima, and  Sydney is a mechanism maliciously  crippled over the last generation.  Offshore and local lackey forces, as well as incestuous, infighting, parochial ones continue on their outrageous, staggering, swaggering  (s)way across the National Consciousness like so many Kings Cross Whores; utterly  without shame since times before  the devil  was young.

 The sun seems already to have set in the wake of this briefest of reigns: like  ancient  Thebes almost from the wake of Leuctra, Sydney is reduced to the status of querrelous outpost and both its long suffering hinterland and the rest of the country look on with tired resignation..

None of the King's horses

And, Mr Walter, despite what I do, the sewers are full of ... well, no, they're just about 120 years old in our area and not well built under Whitlam (there's a source of jokes for you) ... yet, there will always be a Sydney, whatever the sea level, whatever the tide, whatever the inhabitants and whatever the bloody Government. River valley, drowned river valley, fjord, 400 fathoms deep, whatever, there will always be a Sydney. I hope it will be ASS Sydney (Space Station, Space Ship, whatever - as long as it's ours).

And, as long as that lasts, we'll always have our good honest, loveable whores in Kings Cross. If I had a dollar for every time a kindly eye had smiled on me with a view to a profit, I'd be at least 10c richer on each deal. Oh, bugger, that's the GST isn't it? Where was the headline "Street Whores Up 11%"?

Back to the thread, where's the Barrel on that? Where his religious right? Where the right of the Labor [sic] Party? Instead of Roman Catholics and Dissenters tearing themselves apart on what are trivial policy sidelines why don't we get some guts into legislating? Let's leave individuals to themselves and legislate for the general good of the public. That means legislating to educate people to exercise their own judgment rather than legislating to proscribe natural yet ill-informed human behaviour.

Natural behaviour (generally with apologies to my old debating victim Bishop Anthony Fisher) like wanting to have sex and giving way to the desire as opposed to natural behaviour like having sex with three-year olds [I'll head this off now - it's not my natural behaviour and I don't condone it, rather I abhor it, am confounded by it, but it does seem to happen a lot over a wide range of cultures and historical circumstances]. Well, I think we have to draw the line somewhere. Hard part about the law - drawing the line. And, as the past week at least has suggested, some of our legislators are not very good at doing that - where do we stand on fucking iguanas?

Back to the thread again: a vibrant democracy has a divergence of views that can be debated robustly, often heatedly, but, preferably, with some form of consideration on both sides (and damn their eyes if they disagree with me). That's the Rights of Man. How many men enjoy them?

The bigger question is: how many should? and that is where I think Mr Irfan misses the mark.

The only real chance any of us ordinary individuals has of making a mark (however lasting or ephemeral it may be) is in our communities. How can we do that if we are communities irreconcilably divided at a local level? You could not find a more aggressive advocate than me but you'll find most of what I achieve (if you accept the proposition that I achieve anything at all and that might be a different argument) is compromise dictated from a position of strength.

Then again, I have been doing a lot of reading for background to the Yorick Despatches and it seems Nelson's advice was always: just go for them. I am older than he when he died, still have both limbs, both eyes and I might just have out-whored him. Never, sadly, have I had a daughter so, I'll stick by my own nostrums for now.

As the pressure builds on an embattled Premier here in NSW, let loose the dogs of war. The Opposition should note however the recent report that one of the dogs was lured away by a party-goer. Beware the mardi-grass dog and, as Admiral Lord Duncan himself might have said: "Bugger the hindmost."

Scott: Whores paying GST? Oh Malcolm!

Bonnie & Clyde of the Central Coast ...

… as they have been dubbed on Crikey. A pretty shameful performance all round during the past week- particularly the media who have acted like the banshees they usually are when after a scalp.

Dr Woodeford brings up a subject that really topped the week for the sheer gall of it: the " tearful " Sophie Panopoulos’s claim that Belinda Neal said if you think evil thoughts your baby will be born a demon (possibly sound advice).

Yet not one single word of criticism on Ms Panopoulos’s claim that Neal practises (according to my wife who knows these things) black magic by sticking photos in her freezer! The hypocrisy is astounding, but the media's ignoring of it is disgraceful.

[Richard: One of these days, Michael, I'd be honoured to meet this wife of yours. Obviously she’s a very knowledgeable lady.]

Just more newshounds saying "Della Bosca denies his wife puts photos in the freezer" or words to that effect. This was a "when did you stop beating your wife" moment and should frighten everyone as to who actually runs NSW. The Daily Telegraph or (sadly) Morris Iemma?

But if Irfan Yusuf's analysis is correct we can look forward to another Labor government, and fortunately one without Morris (which will probably happen sooner rather than later). And who knows, maybe the Labor left will come to the fore finally and rid us of the evil right Labor factions.

As to the Liberals- what's the point of them?

NB: Dictionary description of an IGUANA: Any one of the numerous species of reptiles belonging to the order Lacertilia; sometimes, also applied to reptiles of other orders, as the Hatteria.

Note: Most lizards have an elongated body, with four legs, and a long tail; but there are some without legs, and some with a short, thick tail. Most have scales, but some are naked; most have eyelids, but some do not. The tongue is varied in form and structure. In some it is forked.

I am not a crook

Dr Woodforde OAM: "Reporters and photographers from several newspapers were dipping in like starving refugees."

Yes, nothing there to worry about. Silly old statutory declarations...

"Mr Della Bosca's position is in jeopardy after his office lied to the Herald yesterday when a spokesman said that the minister had not written an apology statement issued by Iguanas Waterfront Bar, which cleared him and his wife, Labor MP Belinda Neal, of any wrongdoing on Friday night."

Now, maybe they can both have a go at misleading Parliament, to boot.

Alan the....

Really Alan?   Failed female  MP's.   LIke Bronwyn "kero baths" Bishop?  Or Helen "I don't know where I live" Coonan?  What about Julie "thousand yard stare" Bishop?

 Of course we all love Pru Goward who tried to turn a stupid beat up into a question of great moral ethics based on nothing much but media scuttle butt.

 What about Verandah Sandstone and that lovely image of her trying to deport a 104 year old Chinese woman (who died this month having reached 107 years and 3 months), or blaming everyone but herself when Vivian Alvarez and Cornelia Rau were found.

 If you want failed female pollies I don't think Roxon or Gillard will ever be as low as this vile lot.

I don't go with the sisterhood thing you know.   I think if women are vile they are vile.

Richard:  Laughed like a drain at the header, Marilyn.  Not that he didn't deserve it, but....

Marilyn, I don't mind

Marilyn, I don't mind you mentioning the mob on the other side of politics, they all should not be there. You forgot to mention the useless lot from the Democrats and The Greens. [Richard:  Line deleted, Alan, you know why!]

I had a good laugh at the funny names you came up with.  You are good at that.

Irf wind and fire

Well, the Labor Party has similar problems with the pragmatic (or sometimes idealist) right and idealist (or sometimes more flexible, depending on the issue) left, but the remarkable similarity over many years remains an issue most remain uncomfortable discussing for fear of disrupting "unity".

But there always remain, by their very nature, philosophical differences with rooted in paradoxical metaphysically-derived outlooks and tho the discourse can remain uncomfortable on the margins, ultimately, no discourse no life.

But the problems of oppositions being effective, firstly as to "keeping the bastards" in government (whoever) "honest", or power-gaining or then using power for mean or noble purposes when in power, remain unresolved because of human nature and the human condition and secondly, I believe, the constitution requiring a reconditioning job after a century.

The issues facing the Australia of the twenty-first century are not always the same as they were at Federation. And the fact is that, even if constitutional reform occurred, there would be still a new set of problems for people to contest over.

Ps Irfan, loved your candid descriptions of some of the flying squad antics. People all sides of politics are rarely so candid or down to earth about certain realities, so there you go. I'll wager the likes of Malcolm Duncan are sitting back and having a smile in the wake of Irfan's particular tales, also.

And where were you?

Paul, I know next to nothing about the personalities or the internecine machinations involved in NSW politics, so I cannot buy into this. (Sorry Irfan, I don't mean to hijack your post.)

"I believe, the constitution requiring a reconditioning job after a century."

I put up a post a couple of months ago, The Frozen Continent, addressing this. I received no response but if you wish to continue along that line I suggest you get back to me on that thread. I don't want my size 11s on Irfan's pinkies.


Was offline a few months back, now just getting back into it. Your link is ok, no probs with what you have written, about to go out so give me a night to sleep on it before offering up anything more.

Was actually thinking back to a reply a current Canberra MHR, Jenny Macklin, gave me a number of years ago, in response to a sad problem (Bronwyn Bishop was involved on the other side?), when I wrote the first post this arvo.

I think constitutional reform is one of those subjects that gets a retrospective every so often here. The likes of Fiona, Malcolm Duncan, David Davis, Richard, Margo and others not present have been interested in this subject , as a way out of current tactics the establishment employs to keep the public at a distance on issues like state/fed relations, FTAS, "development" privatisations and so on.

All this and Yammer laughs

Irfan, I have never seen any credible sign that Morris Yammer is a human being and not some sort of android yet the Liberals are still so bad they can't win a trick.

Even the Neal fiasco beat up makes Rudd look a winner and Yammer a total loser although I personally can't see what the fuss is about in that case.

No fuss?

"Even the Neal fiasco beat up makes Rudd look a winner and Yammer a total loser although I personally can't see what the fuss is about in that case"

Marilyn, the fuss as you described it relates to certain issues:

A NSW state politician and his Federal member partner allegedly became involved in something at a restaurant.

As this happened comments such as "dont you know who I am" and "you won't have your liquor licence in 3 months" are alleged to have been thrown around.

Would you not agree that this carries a very strong tone of peddling political influence, or worse still political interference in matters?

Now it has transpired that the apology offered as a reason for not removing a State politician was in fact drafted by him. While the threats were not made by the person writing the apology, he stood by while they were made and did not contradict them

The apology was made after he contacted a co-owner of the establishment, yet despite this, six of those who submitted statutory declarations have refused to withdraw them. They have been countered by declarations from friends of those involved; however, several matters on these are now being questioned.

At the very least, someone is making false statutory declarations, a criminal offence which carries a penalty of up to 7 years' jail.

If you think that this matter is over for either the State Government or the Federal Government you may be unduly optimistic.

So exactly which parts of peddling political influence or criminal offences don't you have a problem with?

Or is the fact that it isnt the Liberal party so anything goes more the reason for your lack of concern?

Please don't reply with a lecture about what someone did or didn't do on an immigration case, or the AWB or such things - just stick to the "merits" of this case

I don't think you will be able to manage that, but let's see.

Richard, I have noticed that you have had a few witty exchanges with Eliot lately and even agreed with him on some matters. To say I am a little unsettled by this is an understatement!

Richard:  Is there a tablet I can take? Fiona's experienced a similar eerie sensation a few times recently as well, Craig.  In all earnestness, Eliot's contributions to Webdiary lately have been of great assistance to the debates.  Well, mostly, anyway ;-)

All kneel, then bend over

This report fell off the back of a truck … As a medical practitioner, I have been called upon recently to perform a colonoscopy on a Ms Neal, of Woy Woy..

Imagine my surprise when I discovered the entire cast and crew of the ABCTV Insiders program, plus 10’s Meet the Press and 9's Sunday, all trawling around and lapping up what they could scrape up. Reporters and photographers from several newspapers were dipping in like starving refugees. Certain Messrs Akerman, Penberthy, Farr and Milne wielded enormous ladles with careless abandon, while a group from Fairfax licked up the slops.

Some of them, from both newspapers and TV, had mistakenly resorted to entering the back passages of their own loitering chief executives, so hungry were they. I take it the morning TV shows had by then all departed, providing partial relief from constipation.

Recommendation: Urgent high, hot and soapy enema to flush out every trace of this reeking caked excrement.

(signed) Dr Cynthia da Cocque a’Roche FARCS

Off the back of a truck

Dr Woodforde OAM, get your proctologists rubber gloves out, you are going to need them during the next few weeks as you help the SMH uncover some more a*******s from Labor both Federally and State.

Hope you were not near the fan this afternoon.

Richard: Iguana mess everywhere.. and quite smelly.

Keep clear of the fan

Dr Woodforde OAM, as an eminent proctologist you obviously know lots of Labor ar******s, so the performance of Ms Neal & Mr Della Bosca should have come as no suprise to you. How about this little gem from Mr Della Bosca:

"Myself, my wife, my family and I think most people in NSW are sick and tired of hearing about this matter."

I am sure you are not sick and tired of it, and would like to get to "the bottom" of things.

Then there is this from MP Julia Irwin,:

"Why the Cheryl Kernot, the Kelly Hoare and now Belinda Neal? Why not the men? I've been in the Parliament for 10 years and can think of a dozen occasions where men have behaved offensively."

Plenty of work there for a struggling proctologist. Perhaps Mr. Iemma will clear things up this afternoon at his press conference. Just stand clear of the fan.

No fuss

Marilyn: "Even the Neal fiasco beat up makes Rudd look a winner and Yammer a total loser although I personally can't see what the fuss is about in that case."

It is just another case of a failed female Labor MP.  The list gets longer and longer. Wait till the heat is turned on and watch Gillard and Roxon join the list.

Richard:  You are a brave man Alan, and I will play a tune at your funeral, which I reckon, once the womenfolk around here read this, will be the day after tomorrow.

Fiona: Richard's on the money, Alan. In (and with) spades. Bonne chance...

The Exorcist

But who among womenfolk, menfolk and anyotherfolk could fail to be motivated by Sophie Panopoulos’s near tearful inference that Ms Neal (and her familiar, no doubt) had cast a spell on her unborn baby.

Witchcraft, in the Chamber! Sergeant-at-Arms, string up the garlic over every door and window! Drive a stake through the Member for Robertson’s heart! Duck her in Burley Griffin, or the Hawkesbury! If she floats, burn her at the stake (a size or two bigger, one would suggest)! Hail Bloody Marys all round at Klubbe Kaos.

There shall be no sorcery in the House of Representatives. The diabolical red Senate … that’s a different story.

The Exorcist Part II

Venerated Dr Woodforde ne whatever. Whilst for the most part I am simultaneously amused and confused by your posts (I'm a bear of little brain), your last was precisely what I have been complaining about to my newest bestest friend Paul Morrella. My lefty credentials are impeccable but these people are arseholes.

Iemma has stood Della Bosca down, pending a police investigation.

Guess where that's going to go.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
© 2005-2011, Webdiary Pty Ltd
Disclaimer: This site is home to many debates, and the views expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the site editors.
Contributors submit comments on their own responsibility: if you believe that a comment is incorrect or offensive in any way,
please submit a comment to that effect and we will make corrections or deletions as necessary.
Margo Kingston Photo © Elaine Campaner

Recent Comments

David Roffey: {whimper} in Not with a bang ... 12 weeks 6 days ago
Jenny Hume: So long mate in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 8 hours ago
Fiona Reynolds: Reds (under beds?) in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 2 days ago
Justin Obodie: Why not, with a bang? in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 2 days ago
Fiona Reynolds: Dear Albatross in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 2 days ago
Michael Talbot-Wilson: Good luck in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 2 days ago
Fiona Reynolds: Goodnight and good luck in Not with a bang ... 13 weeks 3 days ago
Margo Kingston: bye, babe in Not with a bang ... 14 weeks 9 hours ago