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Julia Irwin and the scriptwriterG'day. Webdiarist Sol Salbe was born in Israel, where he did most of his schooling. These days he spends most of his day in Melbourne in front of the computer trawling through the extensive Israeli media and other web sites. Sol contributed to the Webdiary Ashrawi debate in 2003 and runs a small Middle East news service relying predominately on Israeli sources which he often translates himself from the Hebrew. Sol's last piece for Webdiary was Danby MP vs Melbourne University Press. Sol is a member of the Australian Jewish Democratic Society, the Greens, Hamerkaz HaIsraeli and even a few cooking groups however the views expressed are his personal views and are not necessarily those of any these organisations. Info: ssalbe@westnet.com.au Julia Irwin and the scriptwriterby Sol Salbe Many years ago when the writer lived in Israel the local equivalent of the Transport Accident Commission had a clever slogan. It was (translated from memory) "On the road it is more important to be wise than to be right." That truism holds for politics. Labor MP Julia Irwin has now earned herself the title of a serial offender, being lambasted by some of the leading lights of the Jewish community for her recent comments in the adjournment debate. True to form, her own party Leader, Kim Beazley, joined her critics. If the question is: can I find anything which is not right with her comments - then skip the next two paragraphs and read on. However that might not be the only relevant question. The most logical and sensible critique of Irwin that I have heard came from a personal friend. He simply said that Irwin's comments were not balanced. Maybe I do not share his entire notion of "balance" when it comes to this issue, but I thought he had a valid point. Of course, when we corresponded, I at least (and presumably him) was not aware that Irwin had followed Malcolm Turnbull's contribution which very much fell into the Israeli narrative (and which Palestinians and their supporters would found just as objectionable.) Irwin Supporters could claim that in fact she was restoring the balance. Nevertheless even under those circumstances it was unwise to say the least to mention dead Palestinian children without mentioning dead Israeli ones. Both sides pain is the same on that count. But there is an even more fundamental point here. Let's agree for the time being that Irwin had every right to use the terms she used. But was it necessarily wise? Instead of debating the merits of her points a lot of valuable time has been taken up with a debate on semantics. Wouldn't it have been better and much more difficult for the other side to refute had she read into Hansard some of the Israeli criticism of the Disengagement mentioned below? Spending more time on the script as to how she says it as well is what she says may have paid handsome dividends. But we digress. Beazley chimes inSo why did Beazley blast his own backbencher? Most Australian who do not read the Australian Jewish News and are not on the relevant e-mail lists would have first found out about the controversy by reading Glen Milne's article in the 26 September Australian. Irwin and unnamed others were alleged to be "Nazifying" Israel, no less. Here is the way Milne put it:
Milne then sticks in the boot: "This is deliberately insidious stuff. Note the use of the words 'ghetto', 'concentration camp' and 'ethnic cleansing', all terms associated with the Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany." None of Irwin's numerous critics, including Liberals Phillip Ruddock, Tony Smith ; Labor reps Michael Danby, Leo Price and Kim Beazley, Jewish community Leaders Grahame Leonard (Australia) and Michael Lipshutz (Victoria) or anybody else had put out a case why Irwin was wrong. They preferred to tackle her on her language. But it is important to note that she made some important points in her adjournment speech. Again here are some of these:
As an Israeli the strangest thing I find about Irwin's message is how mainstream it is. Browse through any of the main Israeli dailies and you'll find journalists and commentators making the same points. Much has been made of the Gaza withdrawal by Irwin's critics. But even the Israeli government itself has given up asking the UN to acknowledge that it is no longer the occupying power. The UN has given such a certificate for Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon. It is unlikely to provide such a certificate for Gaza where Israel still controls the air and the sea routes and where even registration of birth, deaths and marriages have to go through Israel's computers first. As for the notion that the Gaza disengagement should be seen as a tactical step. What would the critics say about Israel's most important commentator, Nahum Barnea? In his Rook for a Queen analysis he wrote:
Is Barnea, a commentator for the largest circulating dailyYediot Acharonot going to be blasted for verging on antisemitism? It's the LanguageBut above all it's the language that got the critics upset. Remember Milne's charge: "'ghetto', 'concentration camp' and 'ethnic cleansing', all terms associated with the Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany." Well not quite: "Ethnic cleansing is an expression which only entered the English language about 15 years ago. It is almost a direct translation from the Serbian and it harks back to the war between the Croats Serbs and Bosnians. To the best of my knowledge there were no Jewish victims of that ethnic cleansing. Some of the victims of the Serbs were Christian Croats. A lot more were Bosnian Muslims. It takes real hutzpah (or in Milne's case, ignorance) to tie in "Ethnic cleansing" of Muslims with Nazi Germany's vile attack on the Jews. Concentration camps are associated with the Nazis but they are actually a British invention dating back to the Boer War. They are different to the annihilation camps such as the six main death camps of WW2: Auschwitz, Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibór, Majdanek, and Treblinka. Some like Auschwitz had both parts. Similarly the word Ghetto which dates back to the Jewish quarter in Venice is these days more often associated with African-American neighbourhoods in the US, as any Google search of the word would verify. So the linguistic tie to Nazi Germany is very loose indeed. But be that as it may, what is important is that such language is part of the normal Israeli discourse. Israelis continue make reference to the Holocaust in their day to day lives. Two quotes from the current Leader of the Opposition, Yosef, "Tomi" Lapid to start with: Lapid, himself a survivor of the Nazi atrocities, expressed outrage at the practice of writing ID numbers on the arms of Palestinians. He said that, ". . . [the] connotation of the act is 'unbearable', noting that it was carried out at Auschwitz". He added that Chief-of-Staff Shaul Mofaz had ". . . confirmed [that] the marking of Palestinians was carried out at Tulkarm-area refugee camps" (Jerusalem Post. 13 March, 2002). Later on (when he was Justice Minister) observing an elderly Palestinian woman rummaging through the ruins of her house he said that she reminded of his grandmother during the 'thirties. The former Israeli Education Minister Shulamit Aloni (who a decade or so ago was a guest of honour of the Jewish community leadership that lambasted Irwin) declared in a demonstration in Tel-Aviv on 9 February 2002 (quoted the next day by Ynet): "We shoved the Palestinians into a situation similar to the concentration camps. Should we just wait till they are also gassed?" Need I go on? Do I have to go through the way the evacuated settlers never gave up their own Holocaust analogies? Can anyone forget the prominent posters of Yitzhak Rabin in Nazi SS uniform at the rallies against him where the keynote speaker was Binyamin Netanyahu? The same Netanyahu turned up in a major event in Australia in 2001 where one of the other guests was Kim Beazley. One wonders whether Beazley had expressed his displeasure at such antics to him. Another of Irwin's comment that has generated anger was here reference to the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem. The President of the Jewish Community Council of Victoria Michael Lipshutz suggested that the claim was untruthful. It was quite ironical that within a few days a study by Dr Israel Kimche of the Jerusalem Institute would deal with the very impact of the fence wall "enveloping Jerusalem" on the city's Arab population. It's not pleasant reading. Similar material on the way Israel is pushing Palestinians out of East Jerusalem is available in English in a UN human rights report. The most objective comment one can make is that whether or not Lipshutz finds the comments offensive, a perusal of the Hebrew media would suggest that they are not necessarily untruthful. Perhaps that's why Kim Beazley limited himself to saying that Irwin's comments were "offensive and hurtful". [ category: ]
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re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Another distasteful chapter in Glenn Milne's grubby career.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Well done, Sol. As ever, your comments are insightful and authoritative.
Bob Birch, Friends of Palestine NSW
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Dear Margo, isn't it refreshing to read some good sense for a change. Sol Salbe has my vote.
Regards.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
This is a perceptive article, Sol, analysing deeply much that has been glossed over in reports of the incident to date. I have saved the following as a useful quote.
"But even the Israeli government itself has given up asking the UN to acknowledge that it is no longer the occupying power. The UN has given such a certificate for Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon. It is unlikely to provide such a certificate for Gaza where Israel still controls the air and the sea routes and where even registration of birth, deaths and marriages have to go through Israel's computers first." From “Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter” by Sol Salbe (Margot Kingston Webdiary, 2 October 2005)
Regards from Ray
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Yes, yes, Oscar Werring. Milne is an odious, unspeakable, black propagandist and so are so many others of the Murdoch stable. I have repeatedly prayed Web Diarists, especially journalists or those with psychiatric or psychological training, to volunteer an explanation of his pathology and others with Murdoch of his ilk, like Penberthy etc, for readers but no one has as yet volunteered an explanation.
As for Beazley, name one serious issue he has not squibbed over, for years now. his make -up is easier to discern. Just gutless.
As for Panaopolous, a scold's bridle would do the trick, or at least be more apt. A dreadful creature by any measure.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Well said. I think sometimes people in politics forget that their purpose is to win hearts and minds, rather than purely to express themselves and remain within the sanctity of the circle of the "good guys". Any politicking requires that you be conscious of and respectful to your audience.
Equally, for the sake of moral and intellectual honesty, it is right for every audience to see the whole of the picture and not merely use particular indiscretions as a method of defending and entrenching the status quo, whilst ignoring the deeper message.
Both faults are ripe on Webdiary and in the political sphere.
There is another point which is that one of the essentials of any proselytising movement is the necessity to draw attention to the cause. One of the most basic ways of doing so is with hyperbolic rhetoric, which is there solely to draw people in and get them to talk. Latham is a master at it.
Every newspaper or other media does this, including Webdiary. One of the consistent trends I've noticed from observing Webdiary or other media is the fact that unless you do rile people up a bit, they simply wont contribute.
Sensible, balanced and well-argued pieces don't attract the same level of debate. That doesn't mean they aren't read or that they don't influence opinion, merely that they leave people with nothing to disagree with. Occasionally the truth is that dry work simply does remain unread on the shelf, as I think Albrechtsen was saying some time ago.
The attitude I take is that bit of red-flag waving is necessary, coupled with an acceptance that others will do the same. You can't have it both ways. What I look for is the analysis in between all the furore, to see if a person is a serious analyst or whether they are nothing more than a show-off. I make an effort to be generous to anything that anyone tries to communicate to me, if I intend to respond to it.
I've also gone out on a limb and made some cutting criticism, especially of late, but I only do that when I have faith that others will take it either as how it was intended, as constructive criticism, or if that is asking too much, as a small lapse in the broader spread of contributions.
Sometimes the audience isn't the disbelievers, it's simply about preaching to the converted. If a person is brought up or joins a particular social group, part of their function within that group will often be to back-up and defend that group, rather than engaging in an unbiased way with a particular issue. I used to find such a process abhorrent but I've come to accept it now as a necessary part of being part of the human community, rather than striving ceaselessly to be an individual.
I didn't expect to win any friends on the other side by suggesting that Sophie Panapolous be fitted with a muzzle, or that Howard was like Stalin, and I didn't, but that is O.K., it was more for the sake of backing up those on the same side. Having made those kinds of comments myself I find it difficult to judge anyone else for doing so.
Beyond that I do think that sometimes pure maliciousness can be justified. Staying within the bounds of civil discourse is basic politeness, for most issues, but when the subject matter is abhorrent and being dealt with dishonestly, an assertion of refusal to operate within the usual bounds of society can disturb people, which is sometimes what you want. If people are too comfortable or complacent in their state of ignorance and evil, it's necessary to narrow down the bounds of what will is tolerable, in defence of the Grundnorm of civil society.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Is there any credibility in the pretence of debate on this subject when any writer who speaks the truth will be excluded from the discussion? One could pontificate in wordy diatribe pretending to engage the issues but really all the while dodging the potential landmines that tend to litter the landscape of this subject matter.
I dare not even speak the words or hint at that which is, but never can it be spoken without the whip of Pavlovian discomfort lash me for my troubles. Alas, such is the state of truthfulness on matters that remain erased from my commentary that it is possible that in saying nothing with words not to be seen in print one voices his view without saying very much at all.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
I have always believed in Julia Irwin's sincerity and fairmindedness. She is certainly no anti-Semite. Sol's scholarly and informative article, from a knowledgeable Israeli perspective. confirms this belief. Thanks, Sol.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Great article.
One point of interest. The last officially recognised ghetto (prior to the Warsaw ghetto imposed by the Nazis on the Polish Jews) was the Jewish ghetto of Rome. This while still under the rule of the Vatican and was disbanded in 1872. Little wonder why it took over 125 years for these two faiths to come to some understanding and reconciliation, especially after the horrors of the Nazi era. It is also little wonder why some are decrying this description as a history of over 1000 years of such treatment leaves a very powerful social memory and to be accused of causing what your ancestors had to live through would not be at all pleasant; even though many of the Jewish faith see the current situation in Gaza and the Palestinian camps in Lebanon being exactly that (ghettos) and it is equally distressing to these to see themselves as causing to others (the Palestinians) what their own ancestors had to live through in Europe.
To see the likes of the poison dwarf (Glen Milne) try to make some form of political capital out of such an abhorrent situation that is the Middle East just shows that the level of debate in this country can descend very rapidly into the gutter. There are no winners in that part of the world, only people caught in their shared misery.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
See:
link here
for an alternate view
Terrence Ed. Grant, view of what?
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Well not said Christopher... I think?
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
After reading the pitiful tabloid nonsense again offered from the Age op-eds from the perpetually-muddled Pamela Bone, on top of the arrant nonsense that oozed forth from the Murdoch tabloids last week, I feel poor Julia Irwin is going to be sorely disappointed if she had hoped that reasoned discourse on these issues would finally eventuate.
Too many people behind closed doors involved, with obscured motives and hidden agendas.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
A link to a powerful personal story of one Palestinian family's experience with the Israeli occupation of Gaza. It illustrates many of the points made here.
link here
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Thanks to all for your feedback. When we can discuss this issue in an open and frank manner we can begin to take the first steps to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.
Regards
Julia
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Julia Irwin MP writes: "When we can discuss this issue in an open and frank manner we can begin to take the first steps to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
Well said, Julia! Stay the course! You'll be buffeted along the way, for sure, but your courage in calling for rational discussion does not go unappreciated!
A growing number of people in the western world are wising up to the blatant disparity of coverage regarding the activities of Israel and Israelis on the one hand, and the activities of Arab / Moslem nations and citizens on the other.
I could give many examples. Here's one contemporary case.
A few days ago, a cargo ship owned by the Israeli line 'Zim Asia' – and carrying the Israeli flag - struck a Japanese fishing boat on the high seas. Seven Japanese fishermen were killed. The Israeli vessel failed to stop and search for survivors, nor did it report the incident.
How do I know? Because, from time to time, I browse the English-language Israeli media. This particular story was covered, in some detail, by yesterday’s Haaretz, which reports: "The chairman of the parliamentary Israel-Japan friendship committee, MK Ehud Rassabi, blasted Zim's conduct in the affair. Its initial denial of any involvement in the incident, without checking the facts, Rassabi said, caused damage to Israel's diplomatic standing and reputation in Japan. He demanded Zim investigate the accident, draw conclusions against the responsible, and assist the victims' families, including by generous compensation."
A Google News search carried out at approximately midday today (6th October 2005) on the terms "Zim + Israel + Japan" yielded 17 references - most, but not all, concerning the same incident.
There were accounts of the story in several Israeli media, and in Japanese and other far eastern media. There was also a reference in a South African newspaper and an Egypt-based news service.
By contrast, not one 'western' news source came up in the search; one can only infer the story has, in effect, been spiked by the mainstream media in the west.
Imagine the coverage this item of news might have received at the hands of Fox News - or 'your' ABC, for that matter - had the offending vessel been Iranian or Syrian! Front page news for several days, perhaps? Even if an Australian, Kiwi, French, British or American ship had been at fault, the story would have likely received some coverage.
Yet this egregious behaviour by an Israeli ship, so far, is unreported in the western media. One can only speculate why. Is it deemed 'not newsworthy'? Or not fit to print?
The mind reels at this outrageous bias / censorship. It triggers the obvious question: what other topics regarding Israel are 'out of bounds' in the western media? What else are we not being told?
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Grant, the web page you've recommended does not seem to exist. In fairness I waited till the Jewish New Year festivities were over before double checking. Having trawled through the web site I could only find one reference to Julia Irwin but that was from 2002. With all due respects to Jeremy Jones of the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council he couldn't have reponded then to Irwin comments about 2005 disengagement. [Although I admit that a former AIJAC employee seems to have such prescience in regard to as yet unpublished books.] Perhaps you meant a commentary on Ms Irwin work somewhere else? Please enlighten us.
Sid, my search indicates that it was reported by SBS, The Guardian and the Independent among others. A good rule of thumb is to check al Jazeera. If they don't cover an Israel story maybe it's just not important enough. That may be a better explanation than a conspiracy theory. Had the ship being Iranian we would have no doubt heard about it but had it been Russian or Kiwi? Maybe not. Perhaps a phone call to the MUA would solve the riddle: What was coverage of similar incidents when other nationalities have been involved? It's one case where the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
re: Julia Irwin and the scriptwriter
Hi Sol
Thanks for the correction. I've since found the Guardian and Independent coverage of this story; I'll take SBS on trust (couldn't find that).
So far, no US mainstream media coverage of the Zim collision incident, as far as I can see. At the very least, it may safely be said that the US mass media has given the story little prominence.
By contrast, a somewhat similar incident in which a US submarine capsized a Japanese fishing vessel in 2001, killing 9 fishermen, was prominently covered in the US media and elsewhere; Jim Lehrer, for instance, ran an interview about that collision on his popular TV show.
In that case, the offending vessel stopped to help search for survivors (the fact that the Israeli vessel did not do so at the time of its collision would, one might have thought, make that story more 'newsworthy').
I believe my general proposition remains intact.
You wrote: (lack of importance) "may be a better explanation than a conspiracy theory." My point is that this perceived lack of importance requires explanation. Why are some stories regarded as highly newsworthy, others not?
I can provide numerous other examples of this phenomenonal bias on request.
One more in this post may help underline the point.
Take this story in the Jerusalem Post about 'Lavon Affair' Israeli agents receiving military honours from the Israeli President earlier this year.
Was this headline news in the western media? Nope. Barely a mention.
Now, what would the CNN/Fox/ABC/BBC scrum do with a story about the Egyptian President presenting medals to Egyptian agents responsible for bombing US and British 'targets' in a false flag operation designed to frameIsrael?
Spike it?