Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

Steve Turbit "before you start gloating, you should well know that this far out from an election it is not all over bar the shouting. The state polls were and are pretty much neck and neck. And I don't know which ones you read to come to any other conclusion".

That which the Federal Government gives with one hand the State Labor ones takes way with the other through taxes, fees and charges and their incompetence. Voter’s awards are not handed out for that. Get ready for a dry Liberal Premier.

"As for it being the media's fault, who fed them all of the ammunition? Contrary to what Piers tried to tell us this morning, it was not the Labor Party; it was your own Tory mates".

Here I was thinking that nice man Bob Carr refused to accept his apology. On top of that he went to go on and give the man another spray. I guess you’re never out of Labor politics, bit like the mafia.

"I am SO looking forward to John Howard's retirement because the NSW Liberal Party is on the edge of a huge implosion. All it is going to take for complete cannibalism to take over is Howard's departure".

Sounding a bit like Kim Beazley, Steve. Waiting in hope does not win elections good policy does. I always thought you guys wanted John Howard how to run in elections so you could see his face when he lost? That fantasy no longer held dear down Labor way?

I think after reading a string of recent and not so recent polls the next party leader to be gone will not be John Howard. For any guides to who it will be you should look a little closer to home.

Jay White, whatever you say. We will see though, won't we?

Jay White, "whatever you say. We will see though, won't we?

Yes indeed we will. A word of advice to State Labor. Gather every policy from the last five years and scrap them. If not the voter will soon be scrapping you. Labor wont be able to rely on ex treasure Egan writting letters to the herald like some sort of discount salesman in defence of his less than ordinary job preformance.

As for Bob Carr he should run against John Howard for our next Prime Minister. It would be more than interesting to have someone actually put his past policy under some real scrutiny.

Bob Carr had so much faith in his State policies he bought his home in another country. If he wins he could set up the lodge in Auckland. John Faulkner seriously believes he could win a Federal election?

Please oh pretty please let John Faulkner run Labor's next Federal election campaign.

Kristian Adamson, fair go. The man admitted he was wrong. He has been in deep emotional pain. I can understand that women would particularly be appalled by his behaviour, but he has now paid a huge price. The man has been traumatised by his own actions.

He will no doubt have to revisit this pain, in one way or another for the rest of his life.

You know the thing that really annoys me about all this stuff? The politicians beating their breasts, yet again, and bemoaning how hard and difficult their jobs are, how no-one understands them, and it's all the media’s fault anyway. The reality is that most politicians are mean spirited and narrow minded when it comes to their fellow politicians. They are more than happy to find the knife, sharpen it, stick it in and turn it. They only start to bang on about how terrible it all is when one of their own hangs, gases, poisons, or slashes themselves up. For a hypocritical moment they all commit themselves to a more caring and compassionate approach and promptly go off to find another knife to stick into someone else. I reckon the rate of suicide (attempted or successful) amongst politicians is pretty damn low compared to that amongst medical doctors, mental health clinicians, and people who actually do things to help people. Politicians have no right to blame anybody but themselves and the narrow black hole world in which they live for the stress that they experience. If they stopped jerking off on their feelings of power, engendered by basic school yard bullying, they might actually be able to function like reasonable people. The few that I have met personally have disgusted me with their single minded ignorance and their blatant use of intimidation and bullying to get their own way. Those that I see at a distance, on the media, simply leave me cold as they dance to a tune that no-one hears but they and their ilk and which leads them and the rest of us, who are so unfortunately tied to them, down the path to mediocrity.

Jay White: "That which the Federal Government gives with one hand the State Labor ones takes way with the other through taxes, fees and charges and their incompetence. Voter’s awards are not handed out for that. Get ready for a dry Liberal Premier".

Actually Jay, NSW rakes in $13 billion a year in GST and very the Federal Government kindly gives back $10 billion. Imagine what we could do if we got it all back, Jay.

Jay again: "Sounding a bit like Kim Beazley, Steve. Waiting in hope does not win elections good policy does. I always thought you guys wanted John Howard how to run in elections so you could see his face when he lost? That fantasy no longer held dear down Labor way?"

Jay, I said I can't wait for John Howard's retirement. I didn't say how I wanted it to happen. If he bows out of his own accord, so be it. But yes, it would still be lovely to see him absolutely annihilated at a general election. Lovely indeed.

But you totally missed my point. My point is this. At the moment, the NSW Liberal Party Branch is absolutely riven with infighting and division. Also at the moment, John Howard as one of its most senior politicians is the glue that is holding the mess together. When he retires, his influence will diminish. Then there will be carnage.

NSW Labor went through the same thing, and whilst there was Carr at a state level, the Federal level suffered badly because of it. Remember what Bob Hawke said and what John Howard loves to quote him on, "If you can't govern yourselves, how can you govern the country?"

Your state colleagues have not said it openly, and you wouldn't expect it any other way, but I think they have just about written off the next election. The latest NSW Liberal soap opera has caused untold amounts of damage.

I am not going to speculate on the outcome of the next Federal election, but if you think that all is well with your state branch, and everyone is real buddy buddy, and it won't inhibit your ability to fight election campaigns, and you are a shoo-in at the next state election, that's just fine with me, Jay. I couldn't be happier, because that's called hubris. Or is it self-delusional? I'm not sure, but I am so happy you think that way. Maybe you would like to run as an office bearer in any position within your party, if you don't already. It would sure give me a boost of confidence.

Now, as I said, let's just wait and see.

The part I most loved about the coverage of this whole affair was the ABC camera work. We got all these shots of the hotel, against the night sky, seen through the branches of trees. It was a dash of Edward Steichen style romanticism. From all reports the party sounded more raucus and sleazy than that and it hardly deserved that kind of treatment.

It makes me wish this country had some politicians or businessmen with interesting lives. Sydney is a beautiful back-drop for rich and evocative stories about corporate life, though they don't seem to happen. The progression of corporate city folk through life seems to be from boring, workaholic, to mid-life crisis, to boring Eastern spirtualist and yogic practitioner and not much more.

Keep in mind the whole story here. Remember the Young Libs - the Tiny Tories - and how they fit into the Brogden story. Remember what the Young Libs were and what they've become, and think about where the Liberal Party could be headed.

Almost everyone working within media circles has predictably focused on whether their industry should take a portion (if not all) the blame for what in the end can only be correctly stated as John Brogden's actions (and his alone).

I thought it may be more important, more informative, to properly focus on those who were more likely to be grinning as the events unfolded (as if what has happened is comedy and not tragedy). I thought we should really focus on the heartless and hypocritical ones - those who used the media to push the story (regardless of what pain it might cause) intent on their own political gain.

Back in December 2002, Crikey ran under the heading "Who runs the NSW Young Libs? Various Tiny Tories" a contribution from Dino Sawyer (an anonymous Tiny Tory using a nom de plume).

Dino had attended the NSW Young Libs conference a little earlier that year and provided his analysis of the goings on. A few days later Crikey also published a 'debunking Dino' response from Andrew Elder, a veteran Tiny Tory. I found it amazing how the words of the two NSW Young Libs duelling in Crikey's corner of cyberspace look now with the benefit of hindsight.

For example, Dino talking about the news that Alex Hawke had staged a successful coup:

… on Sunday morning, John Brogden was no doubt gagging on his Weet-Bix after the Right took not only the YL presidency but the entire executive … The winner, Alex Hawke, is a Senator Helen Coonan staffer and used to work for Ross Cameron, MP. He took the top job by 55 votes to 50 from J-Bro's Senior Adviser, Lucy Wicks. J-Bro was, of course, a former YL president himself in the 1980s, although Wicks may have not been to the taste of too many Little Libs, given that she was organiser of the ultra-Left, ultra-Feminist 'Blue Stocking Womyns Collective' SRC ticket back in her Sydney Uni days in the early 1990s.

Here we have several protagonists in the recent tragedy. There is Mr Brogden himself, the former NSW Young Lib President supporting the rise of a Young Lib woman and an "ultra-Feminist" no less. To me that signals he has (or at least had) a measure of respect for young women. I'm not too sure about some of the other players in the real sordid affair.

It is ironic that one person named by John Brogden -- Alex Hawke -- was a former staffer to the former federal MP the Parramatta poker player, Ross Cameron, isn't it? It is interesting who Alex Hawke works for now, isn't it?

The very Christian conservatives are so trustworthy, aren't they? You can count on them can't you - the way they count on securing not only our vote, but our souls as well - or is it that they want us to go to hell? (as they shift further and further right nowadays it is so hard to tell).

Regardless of whether the Christian conservatives taking control of the NSW Liberal Party actually desire to bring us all heaven or damn a lot of us to hell, Dino gave Crikey readers an insider's view of the values they hold:

"… the 'winner take all' voting for YL elections means that all six YL Federal Council Delegates go to the Right. The theme of the 2003 National AGM can be found in one word: REVENGE."

And, perhaps with prescience, young Dino closed his anonymous Crikey debut with a quote from another anonymous Young Lib:

"But I will leave the final word to one YL wag: 'Brogden can now expect the same loyalty and support from the Young Libs as the Young Libs have shown to John Howard over the years'. Take that as you will."

The rapid response of Andrew Elder, "an active member of the Liberal Party from 1986 to 2000", also provided some degree of insight for someone like me [someone outside NSW and definitely outside Young Liberal circles or should that be triangles?].

"I knew John Brogden and supported him. As a poverty-stricken student I travelled halfway across Sydney and spent $70 on a taxi fare to vote Brogden in a preselection; and if it weren't for the fact that Brogden would be ashamed to receive my assistance, I'd happily do so again. What hope the Liberal Party has to broaden its base beyond Howard is largely vested in that man," wrote Elder. I guess that means the Liberal Party now has little, if any, hope of continuing to be liberal.

Andrew Elder continues: "John Brogden was President of the NSW Young Liberals from 1992-93, not 'in the 1980s' as Dino Sawyer claims. Brogden visited branches and was the one NSWYL President in my experience who genuinely impressed and inspired ordinary, new branch members. I was President of a YL branch then and there was no greater asset in retaining people who'd "just come along for a look". This was due to more than mere charisma, he took a genuine interest in people and gave them credible reasons why they should get more involved. Brogden will reduce Carr's majority to single digits at least, if not put Labor in deficit (and I say that as a liberal, but not a Liberal), which surprises no-one who witnessed his performance as the best NSWYL President of our generation."

I moved from NSW to Victoria in 1997, but as a man with a long family history in Sydney I still keep an eye on the state of my old home. I have not, until this week, given much thought to Mr Brogden or his style of leadership or his prospects of becoming Premier. In the last 48 hours I have paid much closer attention, done some research and actually found some healthy respect for him.

I feel strongly that what Mr Brogden said about Mrs Carr was racist and sexist and just plain wrong. What he is said to have said and done to various women, and any thought he might still entertain that some women are mere chattels, is also deplorable -- and I thought such wrong thinking was the preserve only of what I'd call 'cruel conservatism' cum fundamentalism these days. But I respect that Mr Brogden, after a struggle within himself, did come forward, that he did confess and that he did do the correct thing in standing down from a position of leadership. He clearly recognised that he could no longer occupy a position of trust.

Also very clear to me now is that Mr Brogden is a man with a heart and it is likely that he felt it irreparably broken. Not just by the shattering of his dreams of political promotion, but more so by the pain of realisation that he broke his wife's trust and with it was breaking her heart. I can understand a broken hearted man seeking to escape that pain or worse -- trying to kill it. I can understand what goes on in your head when you are in the depths of despair. I can understand suicidal ideation. I can have empathy.

I cannot comprehend what goes on in the heads of the heartless men who plot to kill others (figuratively in this case). Clearly there are a number of heartless men seeking further power within the Liberal Party and if it causes someone else pain, hey what the hell? We need to understand what goes on inside the heads of these heartless men.

I believe that if some of those working within media circles feel a little guilt themselves this week, perhaps just a little shame, they can make amends and improve accountability from here on in by putting the spotlight on those heartless and hypocritical men. They can make amends by shining the light on those who had cast the first stones and still stand in the shadows plotting further power plays amongst themselves. Today I notice some have already started telling the whole story.

Craig, thanks for that post on the Young Liberals. It's the kind of examination I've been wanting to do but haven't had room in my head to manage. Alex Hawke is an interesting figure indeed - maybe it would be worth giving him a spot on Webdiary, to plead his own case.

I had an image of the Young Liberals as markaholics, with blue-caps and naive political ideas. This was all based on research I did of them from years back, which I can now see is grossly out-dated. My hope in my own piece was that I'd get some Young Liberal nay-sayers to argue with me about why high marks are important, thinking they were all obsessive, illiterate and institutionalised and that this would throw a spanner in to their works. I was about ten years too late. It was probably truer in the more 'innocent' Brogden days.

Note: Think how many lives would be ruined and suicides induced if Brogden's public service cuts had gone through.

Someone like Alex sounds like he is far too intelligent and professional to fall for anything like that. I'm quite certain the Young Libs are at least vaguely aware of Webdiary but they're smart enough to know that posting here, without considerable forethought, is a stupid idea for an ambitious person.

I wish I'd written the other piece I intended to write, which was about Irish-Indigenous magistrate Pat O'Shane and the use of offensive language as social control. It's something I've been thinking about for a while now and this was a fine example. The way the world is set up it is okay to be evil, just so long as you do it quietly and remain in firm control of your mouth and your bodily functions.

I am actually happy for Brogden because I think he was never cut-out for politics and he's managed to escape. Yes, he disgraced himself but he has also managed to turn himself in to a sympathetic creature, rather than an embarassment. I'm not suggesting he did so deliberately but I think survival instincts are a funny thing and that this might ultimately pay off for him. His party will look after him.

I was intrigued at Ruddock's comments in support of Brogden, since I think that he has been trying to soften his image - or at least, to make public a softer side which he was too modest to display before - and it was a rare remark for the Federal Minister to make, outside the bare facts of his portfolio.

You've got to wonder how many other Liberal MP's are essentially on the 'hit-list' of ultra-right Young Liberals because of their personal indiscretions. I remember Latham was reported to have made an intriguing remark that those that talk of family values the most are the ones that flaunt them the most, which would be worrying for the Liberal party, if true.

Oh and I can also see a moral argument that it was right to bring this out in to the public. Some people vote for 'family values'. If they knew Brogden was a sleazy party-boy, then they are getting a raw deal. I fail to see why a secretive or conspiratorial culture should be encouraged in a political party. No-one expected Brogden would do what he did, so, prior to that context, I think it was perfectly reasonable to bring this to light.

Thank you Craig Rowley and Dee Bayliss for some insight, outside the normal 'media beat up' discussions here, into the machinations of the NSW Liberal Party. Have heard warnings from friends, who are involved in NSW Liberals about Alex Hawke and his radical agenda. Didn't he get torn down by Brogden not that long ago? For some 'string 'em up, it's the only thing they understand' type of rabid right wing reactionary statement he made, that became public knowledge? So, is this - guess I have to say alleged? - pursuit of Brogden a personal, as well as political vendetta for him?

Do NSW Liberal's really believe that jumping on a right wing "Laura Norder" type agenda will win them elections? Both Brogden and Chikarovski tried that at the past two elections to no avail. Possibly because they used somewhat dodgy statistics, but also because not that many pundits fell for that tired old ploy.

Craig Rowley thank you very much for pointing out the Young Liberals role in the Brogden affair, a matter that has been very conspicuously ignored by the media, especially considering the fact that Alex Hawke was specifically outed.

However I am afraid the Crickey article is just the tip of a very ugly iceberg. Here are just some examples of what I mean.

An article in June edition of The Monthly indicated Alex Hawke and his ugly factions objectives, and its attitude to its opponents.

“When I ask how he’s dealt with factional divisions, he says his “main agenda” has been “removing that strain and putting in place young conservatives … so that we keep the party on an even keel”. Alex feels left-leaning Young Liberals may as well join Labor or the Greens."

People say it’s a broad church. My [Alex Hawke] response to that is you’ve got to agree it’s a church. It’s not a brothel.

He [Alex] believes Australia will move increasingly towards an American model of conservatism.

An article in the Sydney Morning Herald published on May the 18th hints at why Hawke is a threat to Brogden and the Group (his faction).

"I take the view that in the state Liberal Party … we don't have a clear, ideological cut-out," Mr Hawke said. "Federally, we've done it. Nobody can argue that we're not tough on [illegal] refugees, or that we don't take a tough-on-drugs approach, whereas at State level we try to be in a lot of places at once. We haven't carved out our own niche."

The Age has also, in various articles, pointed out some of the Young Liberal Parties generally odious doings

“Liberal supporters would be saddened, but not surprised, to read that the Young Liberals have followed up their attempt in January to ban Malcolm Fraser from the party by condemning Petro Georgiou and calling for the special training of security agents to kill the Bali bombers” –05/08/2005

“Victoria’s Young Liberals want to end one of Sir Robert Menzies' founding principles - mandatory gender equality in the party.” –03/08/05

"Several senior Liberals were outraged yesterday, with one frontbencher telling The Age: "Party members are angry that the leadership of the Young Liberal Movement, and the party, have not been able to rein in the zealots." –04/08/05

I am of the opinion that it was only a matter of time before this festering pustule infected the party as a whole.

DISCLOSURE: I am a member of the Young Labor Party.

Margo

I have found you at last!!! As George W Bush would no doubt have said, I've smoked you out! It was a rather roundabout Google search that eventually got me this far as it was on a piece in Crikey that mentioned your move from the SMH and which also gave the new web address.

I heard you this morning on RN with Fran Kelly and Glenn Milne talking about John Brogden and I was interested in the point that you made about the editor of the Telegraph, David Penberthy, being too young for the job; he is in his mid thirties, I understand. It actually set me thinking about
whether many people in this age group who, albeit highly talented, sometimes reach positions of enormous responsibility without having acquired the necessary wisdom. I can think of many examples in the corporate and political world but a few that leap to mind are James Packer, Penberthy, John Brogden, Brian Burke in WA who became Premier in his mid thirties and more recently, here in Victoria, the case of our Police Minister, Tim Holding who has got himself in to a lovely mess over the police files affair. Even the great Winston Churchill made a bit of a hash of things in the ealier part of his political career.

I am also sure that there are many thirty somethings who have the talent and maturity and do handle great responsibilty well but there does seem to be a bit of a pattern here.

I also wonder what life experience many of these people have outside their particular worlds? This becomes particularly worrying in the case of politics where many of the practitioners now seem to follow the narrow pathway of university to a politician's office to public office.

I sincerely hope that I don't sound like an ageing baby boomer who doesn't want to let go but I think that I am on to something here.

Glad that you are still well and truly in business!

I predict that Brogden will return to the Liberal Leadership on a wave of popular sympathy.

Various spokespeople from the Asian communities will forgive him, after a couple of well-staged, but sincere, acts of contrition and reconciliation. An iconic photo will emerge of some leader of the Asian, or some other "ethnic" communities, smiling into Brogden's teary contrite eyes. She will be holding his hands saying "You've come such a long way John. We are all very proud of you."

The media will start talking about "the life-changing event that has seen a new almost statesman maturity develop since those darks days way back in August 2005."

Anyone wanna put money on it?

Chris Monnox, please see below the by-play between me and a member of the Liberal Party. I am also a member of the Labor Party (although too old for YLA).

The Liberals have made lots of noise over the years about our inter and intra factional brawls and various branch stacking incidents, but a lot of what's going on at the moment in the Liberal Party makes us look positively placid. Let's put aside for one moment the Alex Hawke stories and have a look at the mother of all branch stacks, Wentworth, under the stewardship of Malcolm Turnbull.

From memory, the Potts Point branch gained 600 members overnight, some of whom didn't even live in the electorate! This all happened a couple of weeks before preselection. This just wouldn't be able to happen with Labor because party rules stop it for a number of reasons.

Craig, I feel a bit sorry for Brogden (although definitely not because of the comment about Helena Carr), but I just can't help but have a good old chortle at our enemy's misfortunes at the moment. At the very least, it will hamstring them, and at the most it may bring on divisions of 1930's proportions.

One can only hope.

While I have sympathy for Brogden’s wife and family I have none for Brogden himself. As opposed to those letter writers claiming that to some degree or other that being alcohol affected excuses such behaviour, it is a view I have never held.

In fact years ago when being intoxicated was habitually offered as a mitigating factor in Court I advocated that a mandatory twelve months sentence be imposed to be served in addition to whatever penalty the offence attracted.

Solomon Wakeling on 31/08/2005, writes: "... from this account - given that he was putting his arm around every female there - it suggests to me he may have had no such intention at all. Some men merely become flirty when they are in good spirits, or when they are drunk (myself included) and it doesn't imply any genuine interest."

Further:"Some women enjoy listening to men say outrageous things and insult other women. I know that sounds appalling but it's part of the way people interact. It's a display of loosening inhibitions, which makes it attractive."

Assuming that Solomon wasn’t drunk at the time of writing the post, it seems that he considers such behaviour acceptable.

I don’t, and never have. I ran an extremely successful cocktail bar in the mid sixties and such behaviour would have had you thrown out, and very probably barred.

The whole Brogden episode reeks of social ineptitude. Drunken maulings and suggestive remarks as a method of attempting a pick up a woman is surely only one half-step from using a club and dragging her home by the hair.

Craig Rowley, you stated: "I cannot comprehend what goes on in the heads of the heartless men who plot to kill others (figuratively in this case). Clearly there are a number of heartless men seeking further power within the Liberal Party and if it causes someone else pain, hey what the hell? We need to understand what goes on inside the heads of these heartless men."

The problem is right at the top Craig, with the leadership of the Federal Liberal Party setting the example. Throughout Australia the ultra-conservative wing of the Liberal Party has become more powerful through ruthless means.

Just this week there was talk of single mothers having to go to work, and then being slugged by huge taxes. Taking the humananity out of policy areas and just being concerned about the dollar value, creates appalling policies. The Howard Government rules for the big end of town, Mr Howard has said a number of times that he wants to govern for all Australians; is he trying to be a comedian as well?

Brogden's allegation that Helena Carr was a 'mail order bride' was dumb, crass, ill-mannered and ignorant. But it was not racist. Bai Ren (at 01/09/2005 10:34:16 AM) is quite right on that point. I would add that 'mail-order brides' are available in every part of the world, but not necessarily by return mail once a cheque has been sent. John Miner points to the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance (AJA Division) code of ethics as the guideline Angela Cuming should have followed. But there is a difference between (a) receiving information off the record from a source (say in the Public Service) then writing up the information but not the source, and (b) quoting what a politician said within earshot of all in the immediate vicinity.

I think it was William Randolph Hearst who said something like "the only story worth printing is the one that somebody doesn't want to see in the paper." Brogden's problem was along those lines. It was about the gulf that opened up between image and reality, and his realisation that it was unbridgeable. Unsurprisingly, some journalists get jobs as image improvers for politicians (and John Miner's job as image improver to Paul Keating must have demanded skills and dedication of the highest order), while others like Angela Cuming set out to give the public the reality the image is created to mask. The only people protected by the journo's code of ethics in this instance would have been Brogden and about half of NSW's Liberal politicians. The rest of the state's population would have been dudded. So Cuming definitely did the right thing. The people of NSW, once informed, were set to terminate Brogden's career. The Liberal Party heavies saw that sticking out a mile.

John Miner says to her: "You should declare who you are and for whom you're working if you want to report what people tell you". This is a principle that can clearly work against the public interest in many, but not all, circumstances. He adds: "Most of us take it seriously, but it can be a judgment call in the situation Ms Cuming describes." In other words, most of us take it seriously, but only some of the time.

Information is power, which is why politicians try to keep the lid on it, and claim proprietary rights over the information in the heads of public servants. But that information arguably belongs just as much, if not more so, to the taxpayers who pay them all, including the politicians. Witness John Howard's dispute with the whistleblower Andrew Willkie.

The best journalists in my opinion are those whose aim is to bring light to the long endarkened mushrooms of Australia.

More on the internal ructions in the NSW Liberals.

Quentin Dempster's interview with MLC Patricia Forsythe on Stateline

Stateline NSW

[This is the print version of story JOHN BROGDEN, FORMER OPPOSITION LEADER: I'd like to start again by restating my absolute and unreserved apology to Helena Carr and to Bob Carr. The comments I made were absolutely and completely inappropriate. They're not true and I apologise for them fulsomely and genuinely.

Peter, whether or not it's appropriate depends on the context. Obviously some women will be alarmed by it and that is bad for business.

It’s not just the Federal Liberal Party Keith Antonysen. I strongly suspect the person behind this week's Brogden incident was one Mr David Clarke, an ultra-conservative member of the NSW upper house.

Alex Hawke works for David Clarke, who aside from being social conservative powerbroker is also linked to Opus Dei. Mr Clarke and his mates, have, in the past, come very close indeed to openly advocating branch stacking in order to get the foci of their moral occultism on the agenda.

On February this year the Sydney Morning Herald reported the following comments made by Mr Clarke:

I can assure you, parliamentarians take more notice of a pro-lifer on their preselection panel than a pro-lifer sending him letters," Mr Clarke said.

Help on preselections is more help than help on election day from pro-life members. I'm suggesting that pro-lifers start thinking outside the square.

Grahame Morris' comments on Lateline last night also offer an insight into the depths of the extremism lurking in the NSW Liberal Party.

GRAHAME MORRIS: They are playing rough. They are playing very rough. It's basically on four or five issues. Before people go too berserk, if you have a look at those issues, whether or not the gay age of consent should be lowered to 16, whether or not there should be injecting rooms. The community has a bit of a problem with those as well. The abortion one is a real problem. It's a problem for all political parties if anyone wants to re-open that one. It's a shocker.

MAXINE MCKEW: Well, does David Clarke want to open that one?

GRAHAME MORRIS: Well, by the look of it they do. There are four or five policy issues they will play very, very hard on. Whereas, most people will deal with them in a common sense way and put them into a whole barrel. These people get up in the morning and that is their reason to exist, to get some of those laws changed.

It would be interesting to know if Senator Heffernan and or Tony Abbott have their fingerprints on the Brogden Affair and the factionalism now brought to light in the NSW Liberals...
Does night usually follow day?

G'day. Ramsey's take is at Such lack of discipline takes the cake.

Having reviewed all the media coverage of "Postalgate" I have concluded that the two best positions are those by Janet Albrechtsen and Julia Baird.

It is probably the first thing I have ever read of Albrechtsen's I have admired, and my impatience with Baird's usual syrup was abandoned, most probably as she plagiarised my own use of the word "treacle" on a Webdiary post at the beginning of the week.

More political history of relevance, this time from veteran political journalist and minder for Hawkie Barrie Cassidy, at Political quagmire claims yet another.

As I said in an earlier post I have no sympathy for Brogden’s dilemma. That said, if not too serious sexual transgressions are to be the standard upon which people are to be judged fit — or not! — for public life, then when are the much more serious transgressions of some of those in real power going to be aired?

I await with bated breath!

Margo, you beat me to Alan Ramsey's piece. However reminiscing about Bob Hawke et. al and his undoubtedly correct assessment of the Whining Smirk does not take away from the fact that Brogden was shafted and lost his nerve and if it was not going to be over this sordid little tale there would have been something else.

Indeed Chris since Craig and I posted on the dirty doings in the NSW Liberal Party the media have picked up on the story and ran with it, particularly after the normally unflappable Patricia Forsythe's appearance on Stateline, the transcript of which I posted below.

Keith Antonysen said:

The problem is right at the top Craig, with the leadership of the Federal Liberal Party setting the example. Throughout Australia the ultra-conservative wing of the Liberal Party has become more powerful through ruthless means.

Well there is one Federal Liberal member who would be in it up to his ears and that is Tony Abbott. Tony is a tad to the left of the NSW Liberal Illuminati, which is to say his seemingly enthusiastic embrace of Catholic social justice teachings on certain issues does not sit well sometimes with their Social Darwinism, but the gap is narrow enough for him to feel quite comfortable with this group particularly when there are deals to be done.

David Clarke is a shadowy figure with a low public profile. His NSW Parliamentary biography is very scant on detail. He is known to be a lawyer and is also a member of Opus Dei, the militant, secretive and conservative Catholic lay apostolate, which among other things has some rather odd devotional practices. It was a favourite ministry of the late John Paul II but it has many critics within the Church itself.

In 2004 Clarke felt the need to make an personal explanation in Parliament related to allegations made in the Daily Telegraph

Strangely enough he popped up as a keynote speaker at the Christian Democrats' convention. Odd for a Liberal MLC and I am not sure how it sits with their party membership rules.

As for Alex Hawke, Robin to Clarke's Batman, he was interviewed by the SMH in May this year and for such a young man promises a pretty dreary and reactionary regime if he gets anywhere near a Parliament in the future.

Mike Steketee also looked at the fun and games in the Australian.

So Barry O'Farrell has been headed off at the pass for now and this could well signal the end of his career. Or at least it will if the Right can force him out.

And Peter Debnam himself? Is he what he is making himself out to be or is he a sock puppet for the extreme Right? The acceptable public face of the private dark underbelly which is never far from the surface in conservative politics?

Latest Liberal Party charm school graduate speaks out…

Comments attributed to the minister for health, Tony Abbott, at the Kenthurst branch of the liberal party, 24 hours after John Brogden allegedly attempted to take his own life…

"I just want to make it clear I have never told an inappropriate joke, I've never pinched a woman on the backside and I never make inappropriate gestures to women."

And elsewhere on the same day…

"If we did that we would be as dead as the former Liberal leader's political prospects."

And on today’s Insiders program…

“One of the problems with the NSW Liberal Party is big flapping ears and big wagging tongues and people making a lot of un-attributed, poisonous comments about others.”

Poor Tony must be feeling insecure in light of recent efforts by some of his more glamorous federal colleagues: 'Boadicea' Bishop, 'Punchy' Panopoulos and 'Dimples' Costello - all graduates of 'Brylcream' Brendan's ‘values’ school.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

This remains the best of the new threads, with intelligent commentary from the likes of Craig Rowley.

Margo Kingston’s own comments are tremendously relevant and reveal the significance of the Meade piece, the only other serious attempt from the mainstream to unravel the salient points of this nasty, disgusting and vile example of what the Biblical commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" is referring to, particularly in the context of the role of people like Abbott and Miranda Devine.

The thing that baffles me is that fact that so many people still think this is all about Brogden pinching someone's bottom.

It's really about an organised smear campaign that a euphoriated naïf was unable to spot coming and the organised and premeditated smear ambush emanating from one of the filthiest pushes in Australian media and press.

Kingston gives the Tele editor Penberthy an out via the medium of youth, but these people already have comprehensive form. The thought of them makes a decent persons' stomach want to crawl!

Worst thing to come out of this incident, faintly reminiscent of Joseph Goebbels who is the spiritual father of the above, is that it gives both the Opus Dei Falangist smearers, and parallel right wing filth in the ALP who have been white-anting it, traction through the press precedent. The electorate in NSW is now denied ANY choice in its future. How the likes of Trujillo must smile as they anticipate the damage they can to do, when they see the country, and its press and media, this sort of mess!

Here is the Insiders transcript from Sunday 5th September 2005.

Broadcast: 04/09/2005

Abbott admits to insensitive Brogden comments

Federal Health Minister Tony Abbott has offered to apologise for making inappropriate comments about former New South Wales Opposition leader John Brogden, in the hours after his apparent suicide attempt.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Leadership of the Liberal Party was openly discussed this week at both the federal level and at the state level in NSW. But it was in NSW where the real drama happened. Not only did John Brogden depart the scene in dramatic fashion, but the elevation of Peter Debnam to the leadership has set off allegations of right-wing extremists have too much power within the Liberal Party. Our program guest this morning, Health Minister Tony Abbott, and he is, of course, a Sydney-based federal minister. Minister, good morning.

TONY ABBOTT, FEDERAL HEALTH MINISTER: Good morning Barrie.
(* To focus on the leadership debate and the Brogden affair I have cut the section where Cassidy and Abbott discuss the takeover of hospitals. That might make a good Webdiary topic in the future).....

BARRIE CASSIDY: OK, in federal politics how long can the Liberal Party go on enjoying the best of both worlds, as one minister put it this week - John Howard as Prime Minister and Peter Costello as Treasurer? Surely that's got six months to run, tops?

TONY ABBOTT: I think that both of them are doing an outstanding job and all of us would like both of them to continue to do the outstanding jobs they're doing.

BARRIE CASSIDY: For how long?

TONY ABBOTT: Well, personally, I'd like to see it go on indefinitely. We have a really outstanding Prime Minister - best since Bob Menzies - and as John Howard himself said, Peter Costello is a better Treasurer than John Howard was.

BARRIE CASSIDY: As it stands now, it seems there is far more pressure on John Howard within the parliamentary Liberal Party, far more pressure on him to stay on than to go - that's a fair reading of the situation, isn't it?

TONY ABBOTT: Barrie, I think everyone believes that the PM has earned the right to depart at the time of his own choosing, but it really will be his own choosing. And John Howard being the man he is, he'll choose a time which is good for the country and good for the party.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Given that though, that situation, doesn't he, though, owe it to the obvious successor - and you among others have said that Peter Costello is the obvious successor - doesn't he owe it to him to give him a signal that he's staying on?

TONY ABBOTT: He owes it to Peter to treat him with respect and with candour and my belief is that that's the way it's always been between them.

BARRIE CASSIDY: So Peter Costello is still unchallenged as the heir to the prime ministership as far as you're concerned?

TONY ABBOTT: Mmm.

BARRIE CASSIDY: No matter what?

TONY ABBOTT: Look, there's a clear pecking order in the Liberal Party. Howard first, Costello second, and then there's a whole lot of other people. But nothing that's happened in the last few months, none of the static that we've seen over the last week or so, alters that fundamental pecking order.

BARRIE CASSIDY: What if static, though, turns into something more than that, that he starts to demonstrate disloyalty, that he starts to contribute to destabilisation, then what?

TONY ABBOTT: I know Peter very well. He is a fundamentally decent human being. Not only has he been an excellent treasurer, he's been a very good deputy and a very decent bloke and that's just not in his nature.

BARRIE CASSIDY: OK, NSW politics now and Patricia Forsyth, a Liberal member of the Upper House, said on Friday night that extremists and zealots have got a lot of power inside the Liberal Party in NSW and ordinary members are being swept aside.

TONY ABBOTT: Yes, I was a bit bamboozled by those comments because I know my own party members. I know my State colleagues as well as my Federal colleagues and I just don't see any evidence for that.

BARRIE CASSIDY: She named David Clarke, a relatively new MLC as one of those extremists and said she's fearful of his power.

TONY ABBOTT: David, I think is a very good bloke. I think that he's done some necessary and important work in the party organisation. I don't see what's extreme about David. He goes to church on Sunday - what's extreme about that?

BARRIE CASSIDY: What he wants, though, he's against the lowering of the age of consent for homosexuals, he's got strong views on abortion.

TONY ABBOTT: That's hardly extreme.

BARRIE CASSIDY: He's got strong views on abortion, euthanasia.

TONY ABBOTT: These are not extreme positions. There would be lots of people inside the Labor Party who share those sorts of views. Kevin Rudd goes to church on Sunday, as I understand things, does that make him an extremist? No look, what's really happening is that we've got a State parliamentary party which has been in Opposition for a long time. Inevitably there's a bit of pressure on preselections, as there should be if people have been in opposition for a long time, and a certain amount of lashing out is going on now by people who feel under pressure. But no-one has a right to stay on any frontbench forever, particularly in Opposition, and no-one owns their preselection.

BARRIE CASSIDY: So if the NSW Liberal Party is moving a bit to the right, you don't have a problem with that? Certainly it seems if the young Liberals are moving to the right?

TONY ABBOTT: Well, there's nothing wrong with the young Liberals supporting the Howard Government. In fact, for years the young Liberals tended to oppose coalition governments in office and it's nice to see the senior party and the junior party lining up together for a change.

BARRIE CASSIDY: I mentioned David Clarke - as I understand it you addressed a meeting of the Kenthurst branch of the Liberal Party on Wednesday night and you said this, "Whenever you hear that David Clarke is doing bad things, you know he is really doing a great job."

TONY ABBOTT: Yes, I do go to the Kenthurst branch and that sounds like something I might have said.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Beyond that, I'm told that you praised David Clarke, but not a word of praise for John Brogden who had only resigned 24 hours previously?

TONY ABBOTT: Well, I praised John Brogden in public that very day. Everyone feels very sorry for John Brogden. He did what he shouldn't have done, but having done the dishonourable thing he did the honourable thing and subsequent events are just tragic. That's what I said during the week and I'm happy to say it again now.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Keeping in mind that that speech at the Kenthurst branch was 24 hours after John Brogden had attempted to take his on life, did you begin your remarks by saying, "I just want to make it clear I have never told an inappropriate joke, I've never pinched a woman on the backside and I never make inappropriate gestures to women"?

TONY ABBOTT: The point is that I made a speech to the Kenthurst branch of the Liberal Party and the guts of that speech was to say, look, we need to move on from the trauma and tragedy of the last couple of days. And one of the points that I made was that Barry O'Farrell had shown the kinds of gifts of character that we need to see more of in the State party if it's to flourish.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Did you make those characters and do you think that's a way that a Health Minister in particular ought to behave? Do you think you lacked a bit of sensitivity there?

TONY ABBOTT: Well Barrie, look, I have never claimed to be the world's most sensitive person.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Well, let's go back to lunchtime on the same day. Now this is just 12 hours after John Brogden was rushed off to hospital. You're now a guest speaker at another function and I'm told you were asked about a particular health proposal and you said this, "If we did that we would be as dead as the former Liberal leader's political prospects." Did you say that?

TONY ABBOTT: Look Barrie, I was at a fundraising gathering. It was a very small gathering. And I was no doubt commenting on a particular political proposal.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But inappropriately surely, and particularly as Health Minister?

TONY ABBOTT: Well, Barrie look, as I said, if you want to accuse me of insensitivity, by all means. I have never claimed to be the world's most sensitive person.

BARRIE CASSIDY: In retrospect do you think that's something you should now apologise for?

TONY ABBOTT: Barrie, if it would make people feel better if I apologised, I'm always happy to apologise. I don't believe in standing on my dignity.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But you do accept they were inappropriate?

TONY ABBOTT: Barrie, lots of people say lots of things.

BARRIE CASSIDY: The mere fact that I know about these things, what does that say about the state of the NSW Liberal Party right now?

TONY ABBOTT: The NSW Liberal Party is in a difficult position. They've lost a lot of elections. They've just lost their leader under difficult and tragic circumstances. One of the problems with the NSW Liberal Party is big flapping ears and big wagging tongues and people making a lot of unattributed, poisonous comments about others. Now I think that the sooner all that ends the better. That's why, in the end, politics is a test of character and I'm pleased that Peter Debnam, for one, and Barry O'Farrell for another are men of good character and they're determined to put all this behind them.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Thanks for your time this morning.

TONY ABBOTT: Thanks Barrie.

Margo: Thanks Dee!!!!!!

The way poor John Brogden reacted is a measure of his general decency. If he had actually been one of these bastard lying pollies of the sort we see in Canberra, he would have brushed it off. Look at Heffernan - all but proven to have falsified records in trying to take down Michael Kirby - but he's still there to bully.

That Brogden was so distressed suggests that he didn't agree with his own actions. He seems to have been suffering from 'cognitive dissonance', which is that feeling you get when you do something without thinking which you know is wrong. Did Howard feel the slightest frisson of dissonance when he claimed the decision to go into Iraq hadn't been made, while the troops were most of the way there? What about Reith, claiming to have proof that children had been thrown overboard? Hardly.

After the resignation of Carr, he was probably on an emotional high. I think the statement against Helena was just a stupid, throw away comment, spoken in the heat of the moment. It probably didn't even show a deep seated racism, just a sense of humour clouded by alcohol. I see it as a stupid way of saying something nasty about Carr, rather than against all Asian women. If he'd followed up with more racist statements, then it would have been different. But we know he didn't.

If we are going to pillory someone for being racist, sexist little prig, why not go after the small man himself who has thirty years of form.

The NSW Liberal saga continues with the Telegraph allegations against Brogden exposed as lies by Media Watch and yet more revelations about David Clarke, the Urbancic connection and the NSW leadership.

Last Thursday's Crikey stated the obvious but cast your mind back to the SMH's Miranda Devine and the slyly coy nudge-nudge wink-wink-say-no-more hints as quoted by Media Watch, and look at the fervent enthusiasm with which the story was pursued by the Tele. Seems either a couple of people at the Tele either need some Opus Dei devotional practices, or something a bit more shady is going on.

This Lateline transcript continues the revelations.

Broadcast: 05/09/2005
Clarke denies denigrating Jews, homosexuals

Reporter: Tom Iggulden

TONY JONES: Tony Abbott's comments and subsequent apology are just the latest events in a row which has engulfed the NSW Liberal Party. John Brogden's political demise revealed divisions and disunity and claims that a far-right wing, religious faction was engaged in a bitter battle for control. The man said to be at the centre of that conservative push is David Clarke. Tom Iggulden reports.

TOM IGGULDEN: This was David Clarke, the suburban solicitor, in the late 1970s, posing at a function for the Liberal Party's ethnic council with this man, Ljenko Urbancic. And this is Mr Urbancic in 1986, admitting to the ABC's 'Four Corners' of his involvement with Leon Rupnik, the World War II Slovenian Nazi General.

LJENKO URBANCIC: I did follow Rupnik and I thought it was correct thing to do at that particular time.

TOM IGGULDEN: These pictures are from last year's inaugural meeting of the Bankstown branch of the Liberal Party, attended by David Clarke after his election to the NSW parliament. Police were called when the meeting decended into fisticuffs after conservative Liberal followers of Mr Clarke clashed with moderate party members, who had accused them of branch stacking. And when moderate Liberal John Brogden quit as leader, he made no secret that he held a senior staff member in David Clarke's office responsible.

JOHN BROGDEN, FORMER NSW LIBERAL PARTY LEADER: The federal president of the Young Liberal movement, Alex Hawke, has been named as pushing it. He needs to take a long, hard look at himself.

TOM IGGULDEN: Now there's new claims by a former Liberal Party colleague who's told Lateline that Mr Clarke proposed exploiting Muslim sentiments about Jewish people and homosexuals to recruit Labor-voting Muslims to the Liberal Party.

IRFAN YUSUF, FORMER LIBERAL PARTY MEMBER: I guess in my case, or in the cases that he could side with Islamics, he sort of presumed that, "Oh, well. If you want to get the Arabs in or the Muslims in, then you just tell them that the Howard Government -" or that he in particular, or the people that he is associated with, perhaps - "weren't all that fond of people of Jewish background."

TOM IGGULDEN: Tonight, Mr Clarke released a statement to Lateline declaring: "I first met Mr Irfan Yusuf a number of years ago when he was a member of the Liberal Party. He has sinced parted company with the Liberal Party and for some years has been running an escalating campaign of denigration against the party and in particular against myself. I categorically deny making derogatory remarks to him about Jews and homosexuals, or encouraging him to sign up Labor Party members as member of the Liberal Party. His allegations are outrageous lies.

TOM IGGULDEN: Mr Clarke's activities have made enemies among current colleagues.

PATRICIA FORSYTH, NSW MLA: When I talk of extremism and I talk of zealots, I'm talking about a group of people who in my view seem to lack a focus on normal, human decency.

TOM IGGULDEN: But Mr Clarke, a member of the catholic sect Opus Dei, has some high-profile supporters.

TONY ABBOTT, HEALTH MINISTER: There is nothing wrong with the NSW Upper House member David Clarke simply because he goes to church on Sunday and simply because he shares some views not uncommon among some decent members of the political party sitting opposite me now.

TOM IGGULDEN: But former federal Liberal leader John Hewson says that claim by Tony Abbott has a dangerous precedent.

JOHN HEWSON, FORMER LIBERAL LEADER: No, they said the same thing about Pauline Hanson.

TOM IGGULDEN: And Dr Hewson says the religious right is a growing influence in the NSW Liberal party.

Jette Jackson Hello and welcome to Tediawatch. On tonight's show, revelations of innuendo, lies, sinister plots, branch-stacking brawls, media bad taste, allegations of sexual impropriety and rampant power struggles. In other words a normal week for NSW politics.

Tonsil This is disgraceful. The media has no right to pillory politicians and to spread half-truths, beat-ups and innuendo to their loyal and trusting audiences.....oh wait a minute....

Jette Jackson On Sunday morning a few weeks ago as the good people of NSW were piously recovering from Saturday night and fervently greeting the day with a shag and some strong coffee while reverently intoning "Thank Christ it's Sunday" Blessed Miranda of the Burbs, Fairfax's token Tory chick, wrote the first hints of the media storm to come.

A few weeks later this was followed by a barrage of reportage in the Daily Bellylaugh alleging that Opposition Leader Skywalker had funded Osama Bin Laden, caused Hurricane Katrina, precipitated global warming and single-handedly destroyed Tasmania's rainforests.

Skywalker's political demise revealed divisions and disunity and claims that a far-right wing, religious faction was engaged in a bitter battle for control.

In 1989 Right-wing Liberal faction leader Rudolf Hess spoke to Four Corners about allegations of his Nazi past.

Rudolf Hess I vas a good patriot. I always supported My Fuhrer. I vill support My Fuhrer until I die! Sieg Heil! Death to Communist scum!

Peter Luck Err calm down Mr Hess. You can lower that right arm now....that's it. What about allegations you have been involved in branch stacking?

Rudolf Hess Branch stacking? Vat you mean branch stacking? I am a good patriot! I serve My Fuh....I mean my party! It is the Communist scum! And the Chews!

Jette Jackson Recently Tedia Watch was handed a grainy badly-filmed phone video of some fat blokes punching each other about. We declined to show it tonight because it is just the normal procedure at Liberal branch meetings in Western Sydney.

We did talk to Big Pussy, former Liberal Party member. He agreed to talk to us provided his face and voice were disguised. We did a good job making him look and sound like Bronwyn Biscuit considering he is built like a brick shithouse.

Big Pussy Yeah Mr Yammer put me in the Witness Protection Programme. I am currently living in a linen cupboard in Padstow. I get a bigger one next week after the missus goes to Ikea.

Reporter What can you tell us about allegations of branch stacking in Western Sydney?

Big Pussy Ah mate heaps. The world is changing. I can feel it in the water. I can feel it in the air.

Reporter What happened at the meeting you attended?

Big Pussy Mate there was a big stack. Vader was there. He tied me up and put me on the floor. Then he sat on me. That was followed by the Branch President. Then the Secretary. Then the membership. All 50 of them.

Jette Jackson Many moderates in the Liberal Party look to the influence of Phony Rabbit and a group of people around him, which includes members of the newly elected State leadership.

Phony Rabbit Listen I go to church. Heaven Rudd goes to church. Even Mr Beazlebub goes to church. We all go to church, even the atheists. Our Leader wants us to have values and we get values in church. Besides the rest of the electorate likes us to go to church so they can get a couple of hours of golf in on Sunday mornings. Gets too crowded otherwise.

Jette Jackson But moderates in the Liberal Party continued to air grievances.

Patricia Forthright I am worried. I have a bad feeling about this.

Jette Jackson Central to the current scandals is Liberal Party Upper House grey eminence Darth Vader. He strongly denies allegations that he is the leader of a faceless extreme Right-wing cabal which is working secretly to undermine supporters of former Opposition Leader John Skywalker.

Darth Vader I strongly deny allegations that I am the leader of a faceless extreme Right-wing cabal which is working secretly to undermine supporters of former Opposition Leader John Skywalker.

Jette Jackson Moderates in the Liberal Party past and present have long feared the influence of the far Right.

Qui-Gon Jinn Ah yes I remember when I was Supreme Leader of the Federal Liberal Party and was ultimately brought down by a deceitful flurry of warm lettuce leaves. It's tough in politics being as mild-mannered as your local dentist. Skywalker is a good bloke. Vader is evil I tell you, evil!

Darth Vader I feel the Force! The Force is very strong. Mmmmmm.

Patricia Forthright I am concerned. There is an evil there that does not sleep. There is a fell voice upon the air.

Darth Vader Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Uhhhhhh. Mmmmmm.......

Jette Jackson This is Jette Jackson for Tediawatch

G’day Noelene, “I predict that Brogden will return to the Liberal Leadership on a wave of popular sympathy...
Anyone wanna put money on it?”

Yeah, I’ll have $5 bucks, if we can put a time frame on it, within the next 50 years or so, would suit me. You may be right, perhaps working out the destiny of a state is a powerful remedy and a conducive therapy treatment. Given the right circumstances it may turn an inferiority complex into a full-blown egomania or work the other way round. For his own good perhaps we should appoint Brogden to the position now instead of waiting to elect him in the future. In this day and age, no one is allowed to feel bad about themselves, failure is just another way of ascending the heights, an alternative route to success, the long way round so to speak. Que Sera Sera.

There could be a very right wing faction within the NSW liberals, but atleast they are close to the mainstream than the ratbag Left elements in the ALP can ever be. How many far-Left factions are active in the ALP. Wonder why the media is silent on that, could it be many of ALP leaders are from that kind of group.

Mediawatch's Liz Jackson reveals .....

the tele's sordid shame

John Brogden is subjected to a week of vilification and ridicule and winds up attempting suicide. The question is raised as to whether the media, in pursuing profit from sensationalism at the expense of compassion and understanding, should accept some responsibility. It’s part of a larger question. What role do individuals and groups play in the tragedies that befall others and what responsibility should they accept?

Members of minority groups are subjected to vilification and ridicule, with no compassion or understanding, every day of their lives. The suicide rate for gay teenagers in regional Australia is, I believe, the highest of any group.

Where is the public discussion on whether the Liberal Party and fundamentalist Christians, in pursuing their social agendas, should accept some responsibility for this ongoing human tragedy?

Irfan Yusuf reveals ...

Our Mate Clarkey

David Clarke was introduced to me as a “hard right-winger” by an old friend John Ruddick, former staffer to Ross Cameron MP and the voice behind “Banjo” on the Stan Zemanek Show. John was a huge fan of “Clarkey” and introduced him as a hero of “the Right”.

Former staffer to Ross Cameron? The former Member for Parramatta that ... well you remember surely. It was one big fat reason he's no longer the Member for Parramatta (most people voted for the other guy ...err... woman).

G’day Greg Hynes:” There could be a very right wing faction within the NSW liberals, but at least they are close to the mainstream than the ratbag Left elements in the ALP can ever be. How many far-Left factions are active in the ALP. Wonder why the media is silent on that, could it be many of ALP leaders are from that kind of group”.

From interstate it his hard to know the particular ins and outs of the NSW Liberals, but as to their being closer to the mainstream than the “ratbag” left of the ALP, perhaps you are correct, no you’re absolutely correct! Exactly how many far-left factions are active in the ALP? I don’t know, do you? From the look of all of the Labor State Governments, their priorities and policies; their demeanor; their conservative economic philosophy; the blatant impotence of influence of the union movement within; their growing media savvy; not to mention their success in the polls, I would say the level of far left activity is pretty low. In fact the ALP, on the face of it at State level seem to be closer to the mainstream than all of their Liberal counterparts put together, allowing one to draw the conclusion that the far left of the ALP is as good as dead.

Is the media silent on the activity of the far left in the ALP? Since I was knee high to a grasshopper, the factionalism of the ALP has been reported tediously year in and year out, and I am surprised you have managed to avoid being exposed to it, (can you let me in on the secret of your success in doing so?). It begs the question as to why the Media would be silent on this matter. Murdoch, Packer and Fairfax would seem to have a vested interest in bringing this sort of “thing” to the public’s attention. I am struggling to identify any, much less “many” of the ALP leaders emanating from “that kind of group”. When you say the “media” I believe you mean the ABC, but as the ABC according to most conservatives is nothing more than a left wing think tank, the mainstream are not going to see it if it’s reported or not.

Greg, you seem to revel and live in the past of the left as much as some of the hardcore comrades do themselves. If, as you maintain they are irrelevant to the mainstream, why do you presume them to be such a threat?

Greg Hynes has again emerged from the shadows to give us the benefit of his lack of knowledge. He says, and I will hold him to this one:

There could be a very right wing faction within the NSW liberals, but atleast they are close to the mainstream than the ratbag Left elements in the ALP can ever be.

The mainstream of what? Are you saying that the Australian public are racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic? Or that mainstream Liberals like Petro Georgiou, Patricia Forsythe, John Brogden, Joe Hockey etc...are racist and homophobic?

I am sure they will be interested to hear that.

"How many far-Left factions are active in the ALP?"

Define far Left.

That is an interesting theory Greg Hynes. Might I run another one by you?

Could it be that the media is focused on this faction of the Liberal Party because one week ago they brought down a state opposition leader in a spectacular fashion? I do not recall hearing that the left of the ALP has delivered any dirt files on Morris Iemma to the Daily Telegraph. Nor have any ALP MPs given any interviews to Stateline outing factional goings on in their own parties, nor have any Labor members of the federal parliament had the fact that they praised the factional doings of any Labor members of the NSW upper house made public, nor have any other members of the federal Labor party attacked the same member of the upper house. What do you think of my theory, Greg?

It would appear Irfan Yusuf is causing a bit of a stir (within a hornet's nest?).

Note this from Personal Explanations in yesterday’s House of Reps session:

Mrs BRONWYN BISHOP (Mackellar) (3.05 pm)—Mr Speaker, I wish to make a personal explanation.

The SPEAKER—Does the honourable member claim to have been misrepresented?

Mrs BRONWYN BISHOP—Yes.

The SPEAKER—Please proceed.

Mrs BRONWYN BISHOP—It has come to my attention today that an opinion piece has been authored and distributed by a Muslim activist, known for his offensive behaviour to women, by the name of Mr Irfan Yousef. He has made a number of scurrilous, ridiculous and inaccurate statements concerning me. For the record, I totally refute his statements but, as he has not resorted to bomb throwing, I guess we can handle his accusations.

It seems recent contributions involving this inflamed mess have, like a therapeutic poultice drawn out Greg Hynes, who finally surfaces with Jet Jackson the Flying Commando nonsense from the Macarthyite 'fifties, about the bogey-man Red Perils of the socialist plot, hiding under the NSW Right bed.

And if you are saying that a few honest folk are not as 'mainstream' as the likes of Milne, Cuming, Abott, Murdoch, Our Lady of the Burbs, Clarke and the like, all this writer can add is, 'Thank Christ for that!'

Dee Bayliss, the mainstream Australian people are not homophobic but they are definitely not pro-gay marriage and efforts to somehow promote it in the public arena. They are not in favour of public schools hijacked to promote a political view point, injecting rooms in their suburbs, limitless and any term abortions, disrespect for the flag, unlimited generational welfare dependency and many other common Left platforms. As for anti-Semitism, the allegation put forward by Yusuf has been vigorously denied by the right wing faction and looks like it will be sorted out in the courts soon. It's funny that the Left should mention anti-Semitism, as it is clear that right from opposition to Israel and to peddling various conspiracy theories regarding Sept 11 and apologising for terrorism, the Left is the home of anti-Semitism. I wouldn't just say just the far Left is anti-mainstream, even the common Left is not mainstream.

Paul Walter, can you desist from personal attacks and indulge in rational discussions. I think you can try better, but that would be a bit hard for the Left.

Chris Minnox, it is pretty obvious that the media involving the Fairfax press and others sat on the incident of Brogden's racist remarks and his propositioning women indecently at the bar for a far while, before the so called factional liberal leaks to the media. It reminds me of the Clinton-Lewinsky episode where similarly Newsweek sat on reports of Clinton's affair with Lewinsky and was hesitant to publish it because it would upset the political fortunes and the image of their favorite President and who is also the favorite of America's left media. Internet gossip journalist Matt Drudge reported and the rest is history. It shows clearly that the media in a love fest with Brogden did not report the incidents. Why? Could it be that the journos loved Brogden as he was a small l liberal with left wing views? Would the journos have done the same say and kept quiet if it was Tony Abbot or any other right wing politician involved in such incidents? I doubt it, once again it exposes the farce that the Australian media is and it is really irrelevant to which faction exposed the Brogden incident in to the public domain.

Carl Fowler, the economic policies of the major parties are the same if not similar, but most major tenets of market forces like Globalisation, Privatisation, de-regulation etc accepted by both of them as central to their economic policies. Where they differ is social policies, so when I say Left factions I meant factions which advocated far left policies in the social arena, the ALP is home to such factions.

Chris and Bob have you noticed how Greg Hynes does not respond to requests such as my "define far Left". That is because he cannot.

Nor will you get any statistics from him. His perceptions come from his fertile imagination.

However this article finds that recent surveys show Australians are indeed becoming less conservative on social issues.

G’day Greg Hynes: “It's funny that the Left should mention anti-Semitism, as it is clear that right from opposition to Israel and to peddling various conspiracy theories regarding Sept 11 and apologising for terrorism, the Left is the home of anti-Semitism. I wouldn't just say just the far Left is anti-mainstream, even the common Left is not mainstream.”

How does the Blair Labour Government fit into your equation regarding your comments above, or is that another case of “what I said is not what I meant”? Bob Hawke who emerged from the Union factions of the ALP to be Prime Minister, as I recall was not anti-semite, in fact he had a very favourable disposition towards Israel as I remember, but you may correct me if I am wrong.

Concerning your answer to Chris Minnox, on the face of it seems somewhat hysterical and illogical, it seems to hold two contrary points of view in direct conflict with each other simultaneously. F. Scott-Fitzgerald held the ability to be able to do such a thing as a sign of true genius.

The Gallup poll could save themselves a lot of time and money by just asking you Greg, what the Australian mainstream think, and what they’re in favour of or not.

Greg Hynes, I think it is still unclear why the Brogden story was sat on, but the reason you put forward may well be correct. None the less, the point remains that you asked

“How many far-Left factions are active in the ALP. Wonder why the media is silent on that, could it be many of ALP leaders are from that kind of group.”

Now I ask you, do you believe that it is likely that this is due to the degree of overt factional activity in the Liberal Party at the moment as opposed to the Labor Party?

If not likely do you at least concede that this is a possibility?

Now regarding your comments about mainstream opinion, namely your assertion that it is against “limitless and any term abortions”. This is certainly true however one must wonder if mainstream is in favour of and end to Medicare funded abortions. The Young Liberal Party, dominated by David Clarke’s assistant Alex Hawke have called for just that. One also must wonder if mainstream opinion agrees with David Clarke’s assessment of abortion as “the blackest of crimes”.

Greg Hynes, do you believe these positions are in line with mainstream opinion? Do you believe they are extreme?

Greg Hynes, "Dee Bayliss, the mainstream Australian people are not homophobic but they are definitely not pro-gay marriage and efforts to somehow promote it in the public arena. They are not in favour of public schools hijacked to promote a political view point, injecting rooms in their suburbs, limitless and any term abortions, disrespect for the flag, unlimited generational welfare dependency and many other common Left platforms."

Please define what you mean by "mainstream".

Please supply reliable polling figures to indicate support or otherwise for those issues you mentioned.

Meanwhile back to the main story with this Lateline transcript from 7th September, where NSW MLC David Clarke finally speaks to the ABC - in Melbourne.

Broadcast: 07/09/2005
Clarke denies extremism accusations
Reporter: Tom Iggulden

TONY JONES: The man at the centre of allegations that he's driving a right-wing push to take over the Liberal Party in NSW has broken his silence. Responding to comments from former and current Liberal Party members, including a Federal frontbencher, State Parliament Senator David Clarke has denied he's an extremist. Tom Iggulden has the story.

TOM IGGULDEN: After avoiding the broadcast media in his home state of NSW during his two years in parliament, Mr Clarke chose neutral ground to answer claims he has extremist political views and tactics. The split between Mr Clarke's right faction and the party's moderates has reverberated all the way to the top with two Federal Government ministers this week expressing their views on Mr Clarke's role in the party. After Health Minister Tony Abbott told parliament on Monday that Mr Clarke's conservative religious convictions shouldn't stop him from being in politics, Human Services Minister Joe Hockey called on Mr Clarke to explain his views. And today, he did just that - to a point.

JOE HOCKEY, HUMAN SERVICES MINISTER: Does he believe that terminancy of pregnant - of pregnancy - termination of pregnancy should be stopped at NSW hospitals?

DAVID CLARKE, NSW MLC: Well, that raises all sorts of issues. I'd have to sit down and I'd have to think through in very specific areas. That's something for the Federal Government, so it's not something that we deal with in the state.

JOE HOCKEY: Now, does Mr Clarke believe we should reintroduce corporal punishment in schools?

DAVID CLARKE: No, as a father of two boys in schools, I don't support that at all.

JOE HOCKEY: Does Mr Clarke believe that we should criminalise homosexual activity?

DAVID CLARKE: No, I'm not seeking the recriminalisation of homosexuality.

TOM IGGULDEN: And Mr Clarke says he'll sue former Liberal Party candidate Irfan Yusuf after he claimed Mr Clarke had proposed using anti-Semitic and anti-homosexual rhetoric to recruit Muslims to the party.

DAVID CLARKE: That character has a very colourful and interesting background and I don't think he's very welcome in the Liberal Party. and hasn't been very welcome for some years.

TOM IGGULDEN: Mr Yusuf told Lateline tonight he's yet to hear from Mr Clarke's lawyers. Back in Melbourne, Mr Clarke also defended claims he was behind a whispering campaign about moderate former leader John Brogden's inappropriate behaviour at a function that led to his sudden retirement.

REPORTER: Did you hear those rumours around the State Parliament of NSW?

DAVID CLARKE: Those specific rumours, no.

REPORTER: Never heard them?

DAVID CLARKE: No.

REPORTER: Never promoted them?

DAVID CLARKE: No, absolutely not. That is absolutely for sure and I want to make that very, very clear and I'm not aware of anybody in the parliamentary Liberal Party who was going around promoting them.

TOM IGGULDEN: And he denied his right-wing faction had control of the NSW division of the party.

DAVID CLARKE: You know, you talk about factions, the people on those bodies are democratically elected and the grassroots membership of the party chooses who goes those various bodies.

TOM IGGULDEN: And as for whether he's an extremist?

DAVID CLARKE: I take a conservative view, but I don't take an extreme view.

TOM IGGULDEN: Mr Clarke added he didn't think the party in NSW was divided. Tom Iggulden, Lateline.

And not to be outdone Blessed Miranda of the Burbs fights back with this personal reference disguised as op-ed for Clarke. With all the references to the "left" on first glance I thought she was going to bag either Labor or her wicked pinko fellow Fairfax/ABC journo- socialists. Not so. According to the Sainted One, moderates Forsythe, Hockey (and even Costello cops a feel though he is hardly a moderate) are now the hated enemy. Good North Shore burghers must be quaking in their Windsor Smiths at the thought of Socialist storm troopers marching up Lane Cove Road. Ah well, there are always those fridge magnets.

Note the indecisiveness from Clarke about abortion. He wasn't so indecisive in February when he made the "blackest of crimes" comment. Strange the effect the public spotlight has on those who have grown used to lurking in back rooms.

I wrote a letter to the Sydney Morning Herald about Miranda's whitewash. If it's not published I will post it here.

Dee Bayliss, indeed I would like answers. Although with some people I do not always expect answers. The interest in the exercise is to see whether they scuttle back to their dark world of ignorance and prejudice or sneak about on a path of diversion unknown to those who follow the path of rational debate.

Surprise us, Greg by issuing answers as requested so we know that there is some substance to what you assert.