Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

Margo, how about trying to bribe/blackmail/cajole/convince Mayney to join the team? He must have a bit of spare time on his hands these days. I couldn't think of a handier person to have around at this stage. Invite him around to the temporary bar for a free drink and get him smashed. When he wakes up it will be too late to change his mind.

Congratulations Margo, took me a while to find you again... keep up the good work.

Rosie Young, coffee is bad for you (slurp).

Glad you're still around Margo. Good luck with this.

Hi Margo, I don't know where else to post this - feel free to move it where you feel its more appropriate.

DIMIA is at it again from AM and ABC online:

"She died two days after being forced to undergo a medical examination in the city by the Department of Immigration and so I wrote on the death certificate that the cause of her heart attack was being harassed by the Department of Immigration..."

ed Kerri: Hi Surjit. I have reopened the thread on Senate Inquiry into DIMIA needs public input and put your comment here

Took a while to find you, Margo.

We put two and two together with all those posts sailing to us. Someone said Crikey.com had published how you'd left SMH Onine, so I surfed over there to read about it.

Glad I found you. Am more or less a public reader but have posted! Your diary is a relief from the often suffocating political climate.

Wishing you the very best in going it alone. Err! where is the money going to come from? Do we have a 'donate to Margo fund' whilst she crosses the bridge?

Phil Uebergang - thanks, mate (cough).

Phew, finally found your site! First heard that you have left Sydney Morning Herald on Late Night Live and then yesterday I started getting email messages from those who have posted on Webdiary. There was quite a lively discussion going on about hackers, viruses and that your move was reported in crikey.com There was no clue as to your whereabouts in SMH but a link in Crikey led me here.

Viva la Webdiary!

It's interesting to see the move. I will be looking with interest to see what happens. The only issue I see is that the one off punters (as I was, a few months back) may well be put off by the move, leaving a narrower cross section (in terms of political, economic and religious bent) than before. And if that is the case, I think the makeup of Webdiary (in terms of numbers and percentages of views from different spectrums being heard) will change - because when you hang around with people who all share at least a reasonable amount of core beliefs, you begin to believe that everyone else does as well, intentionally or not, and that is dangerous.

But lets see, eh?

Just when I get distracted by the sale of my company's building due to outsourcing a fair slab of our manufacturing to China, I have to hunt down Webdiary.

Glad that you still live and I have somewhere to visit while I sit here on death row. I may be able to contribute an article later in the year on how a 40 plus bloke finds a new job under draconian IR laws.

I would prefer less tolerance to those who spout Howard/Bush propaganda as I can get that elsewhere.

Good luck with the new venture. Webdiary has been a very important part of my political life for many years now - I hope that this will continue for many more years.

However, it is worrying to hear that you don't intend to charge subscription fees. I hope you have an alternative business model in mind as I would hate to see Webdiary fail because you felt uncomfortable asking us to support your work.

If you felt you needed to withdraw your statement on subscription fees in order to sustain Webdiary, I don't think anyone would be surprised or offended.

Perhaps in keeping with your open style you could start a thread to discuss possible business models. I'm sure there would be plenty of stimulating suggestions.

Margo: Hi Damian, and thanks for your support. I'm meeting a few Webdiarists who are getting their heads around how to make Webdiary financially viable this arvo. I like the idea of opening up the structure and financing model for discussion once I've got a model to work with that I feel comfortable with (revenue stuff is not my thing...)

l'll make another promise right now though. The structure will be transparent to readers, and the accounts will be regularly published on Webdiary. Honesty, openness and accountibility to Webdirists is as imperative to me as it was when I was on the SMH, and now there's no gray areas where I don't get the choice to follow my principles in relation to readers because of instructions or actions by an employer or hoster.

The reins are in my hands now, and yours.

My heart bloody sank when I saw the notice from the Ed on the old page, gone without a trace and seemingly 'replaced' by some crap called Inkslinger.
Fairfax and serious journalism are fast becoming mutually exclusive terms it seems.

The range of topics and issues covered and the contributions and opinions on Webdiary are too important (to me at any rate) to be lost from contemporary Australian political and social debate.

The Phoenix has risen thank goodness.

Bravo Margo, I thought the moment had arrived and the big step for web-kind was about to take place when I noticed the comment boxes missing yesterday from the old Webdiary, attached as it were, like a tonsil to the SMH web site.
I love the new site (now its like a new baby just being born) - feels the same textually, but it's no longer under the claw so to speak.

Anyway you can count on my continuing support and contribution. I have a few dramatic personal transitions to make in the immediate future so once settled again I'll be back as bright as ever I'm sure.

Lots love and regards to all!

I inadvertently checked into the old site this morning and there was this:

A note to our readers:

We have been talking with Margo about her blog for some time. She had some technology issues which we were resolving. But it was increasingly clear to us that Margo aspired to develop her blog totally independently of any major media organisation. She decided to terminate her contract with us and branch out on her own. We thank her for her work over the years and wish her well. The smh.com.au site will continue to develop new blogs which will provide opportunities for readers to express their views and communicate with each other, in addition to our strong breaking news coverage.

- Mark Scott, Editor-in-Chief, Metropolitan, Regional and Community Newspapers

The comment icon was there so I clicked it and went thru to a page with the same info and no comment box. What a surprise. The thanks was miniscule and obviously reluctantly given. What a surprise. No link to the new Webdiary. What a surprise. A new blogger called Matthew C Thompson has started there; he seems to be another nuance-free warmonger, so he'll fit right in. What a surprise.

Hello, fellow patsies. Anybody else caught on to what's happening here yet? Fairfax is aligning itself with Packer/Murdoch - getting ready for the big sale of course. How slow are we?

The Herald has just posted this up on the old site complete with the comments link and I am veryyyyyy tempted to say hi, nicely of course!

Fairfax has received a number of complaints from readers about unsolicited emails sent by Margo Kingston or her associates. Fairfax is concerned about this and would like to inform its readers that these emails were not sent by Fairfax, nor authorised by Fairfax. We have taken immediate action to ensure that any personal information of Web Diary readers is properly protected.

While we were not responsible for these emails, Fairfax regrets any inconvenience caused to readers.

If you have any ongoing privacy concerns, please contact us.

Hi Margo, a big big thanks to you and all the volunteers trying to keep Webdiary going.

It's a great place to read some alternative viewpoints and detailed discussions of issues, current events, ideas, etc.

I'm not sure about this subscription idea. Webdiary is more of a discussion group than a media outlet. Using the Crikey model, people are prepared to pay an annual subscription for a unique news service, which is in part provided by those with subscriptions.

Whereas Webdiary is a great outlet for ideas, it is not an avant-garde news service. Margo would have to step things up a notch before expecting people to pay to use.

This may be possible in the future if she manages to get inside stories on pollies, for example, but in the short term I reckon her best bet is advertising windows on the side bars.

And perhaps some clever product placements. But they'd have to be clever (ala the Triple J drum logo).

Whew - that gave me a start. Webdiary, amongst other sources - especially the recent move - has demonstrated a lot of things that I knew intellectually but haven't really experienced overtly. Information really is power and is thus worth working for (and like cleaning the house - it never ends - to quote Simpsons). Well, if you want your actions to have any meaning anyway. This truism, while it was never felt, remained vague and in the background while I went about being me and will continue to do so while I avoid acting fully in accordance with my beliefs due to fear and apathy.

It is disturbing - almost as disturbing as my feeble grasp of grammar - just how passive I am in obtaining information and how I'm willing to accept much as fact until I'm contradicted by another source but don't make an effort to check for that source.

I think this place can be a good source of contradiction, a beautiful thing if you can leave your ego behind, and just as frustrating/intimidating 'cause really, who here can fully do that?

Thanks to Crikey otherwise I wouldn't have found this again - those emails didnt tell me anything other than something wasnt right.

Many thanks and admiriation to everyone on here - even reading through all the posts is too much work for me so I can't fathom the effort it takes to administer it all.

Thanks Margo, and all contributors, it's an inspiring sense of community involvement you've created for all us.

Some of you guys seriously put in the hard yards goin' at each other - where do y'all find the time?

Just because I probably can, I'll throw this up. I can't speak for Margo, but I, as the only resident Right Wing Death Beast who even likes Geordolf W.W.(CoWboy Warmonger) McHaliBushEnronton and HoWARd, would like to see even more diverse views and articles (by this I, obviously, mean I want fundamentalist ultra-conservative neo-con crusaders who support Jewish Zionist domination of world commerce, politics and media) from you guys (and girls, I better add before my paternalist, mysogonist patronising idiocentric terminology gets me in trouble).

What all that means is that I would like other conservative commentators to step up to the plate and have a swing at writing articles (well, be swung at). If you want to do it, say it!

Yes, congratulations Margo, if that's the appropriate term for your move. I sincerely hope you can make it more than a labour of love. I have reservations about the financial aspects but I'm encouraged by the knowledge that you've gone into the venture with your eyes at least partially open - having paid for some of the financial slack at FF out of your own pocket.

It's only a suggestion based on my perceptions, but it seems to me that a lot of time and effort must go into 'screening' individual contributions i.e. every contribution, and across a variety of parameters. So maybe a 'Grey' list would be in order. Your editors already know the names of people who rarely require 'editing' and those that require careful or frequent editing or scrutiny. This latter group is the grey list. I read the rules before I began posting and it seems to me that some contributors and editors are unaware of either the meaning or intent of the rules.

I suggest you raise the bar. Arrogant ridicule, ad hominems and vacuous slander, from people with nothing to say, add nothing to a debate and are in sharp contrast to the often thoughtful contributions of many posters. It's easy to confuse quantity with quality in the quest for 'ratings'.

I visit many public comment sites and Webdiary attracts more intelligent comment than most. Unfortunately one often has to wade through a lot of irrelevant insults and dross to find it. Irony aside, the tiniest hint of personal vilification should consign any post to the round file, and its author to the DO NOT POST list until the editor has the time, and inclination, to read their subsequent contribution(s). Quality will automatically improve if rubbish is sifted out.

More people with interesting and original/unusual ideas will quickly fill the tiny void created by the self-exclusion of the serial vilifiers with nothing to say.

Good Luck!

ed Kerri: Hi Neil. I’m not answering for Margo, but most of the comments editors’ time is spent correcting the formatting of posts. It takes two mouse clicks to delete an abusive post, yet at least eight keystrokes to add the <b> &lt/b> tags to bold the name of the person the poster is addressing.

Can't you see what is happening people? We're to the looking glass here. This is all part of a vast right wing conspiracy. People are out to get us. They're everywhere. The right, big business, America, John Howard. All these entities are working to shut Webdiary down. Only relentless vigilence will keep it open from the clear and unambiguous threats it faces. Oh and the tooth fairy is personally known to me.

Hi Margo. Yesterday you told one of your readers, "argo: You're never too old to have a go..." That's encouraged me to have a go.

As a retired Sydney journo, I'd like to contribute now and again a story from my e-book, Life Begins at 80... on the Internet to your exciting new website.

For a start, please see this police rounds story.

Best wishes, Eric.

I found this site easily by running an advanced search on Teoma (not using Google so much nowadays for many reasons) and that brought up the Crikey article as number one. Went straight there and it had a link to the new Webdiary site, which redirected here perfectly.

This split with FF was inevitable. I can remember people in the audience raising its likelihood at the launch of Not Happy John! in Brisbane and urging you Margo to have alternative plans in place. It is good to see so many people here.

I too have had unsolicited e-mails, but significantly they were not about the new address, not at all. They were alerts about a "Webdiary virus". I can't help thinking there is more at play than a mistake by Hamish. The e-mails I got gave me the idea someone was trying to discredit webdiary and get people to set their spam and virus filters to block e-mails about Webdiary.

However, if that is true it isn't going to work. People are more web literate than the newspapers would ever want to know and will find this and the new site. And as they shoot themselves in the foot they will wonder how so much news and communication is happening "totally independently of any major media organisation".

Re the financing of this: are you enough of a celebrity type to stay in that internet cafe (or another one) and have it as a physical (meatspace) hub of the media revolution? Where your mates can slurp their coffee and talk philosophy and politics while the cafe funds/subsidises your broadband access? Just an idea.

Pam Rosengren.

Personally, I don't get much value out of the name bolding. I'm not against it... but if it were to disappear tomorrow I might not even notice. And yet this is where the majority of editor's time goes?

Here is my very short priority list of tasks that I would like to see for WD editors:
1) Quality control - ruthless rejection of any sub-par contributions. Including those containing personal attacks, that repeat existing points without adding anything or that simply don't contain any interesting ideas.
2) Clarity control - In order: grammar, then spelling and finally formatting.

Ed Kerri: “eight keystrokes to add the tags to bold the name of the person the poster is addressing.”

Question—why do they need to be emboldened anyway?

PS. I bags all the red herrings, hic, cough, burp ;-)

Hi all, looks like I'm the last one to find my way here. The party is raging just like normal, people are drinking, talking and laughing. This old Albatross feels like he managed to find his way back home.

I'll av a pan galactic gargle blaster and a big fat joint thanks Jack.

Cheers Margo, trust everything will work out just fine and thanks guys and girls on the team for all the work you must have put into this. I'll try hard not to throw up all over the floor or fall asleep under the bar, promise.

Margo, et al.
I only just found out.
Good luck with the whole thing.
And speaking of good fortune.
I think with a bit of luck, you can get more views shared here, than at a religious summit with an Australian Prime Minister.

Good for you Margo. I was feeling a little lost, so glad I've found you again!
I had noticed that SMH was changing, I am worried about Alan Ramsey though, will he be OK? I cannot leave him you know!

On a serious note, your blog is the only one that I have felt comfortable to contribute in, must be your commitment to people power and a little personal pulling power of your own! Good Luck.

Sorry, I almost forgot. Please don't make people register like at the other site.

It wasn't necessary when it first started up, so - apart from the financial aspect of having online (free) news - why is it necessary now?

Hi Margo, I hadn't realised how much I needed Webdiary, to hear the voice of reason in this surreal climate we live in.

Searched Google for your new site, and this didn't come up, but your mate Tim Blair did. Never read it before but after doing so am amazed he isn't arrested for hate crime, what a bunch of haters there, so sad. They 'mentioned' you and Anthony. I wonder if the line they were on has anything to do with it all. I remember that NZ Herald cartoonist.

I think you are awfully brave to open up to us all, and my spelling is worse than yours, and then to find you to be the target of such viscious nasty attacks, well... coming here I reckon it is pure jealousy as the tone and quality of writing is vastly superior, discussing the article or issue rather than abusing the person, but more importantly there is respect here for all, well almost all, and posters aren't just deleted and personally abused by editorial staff as there. Really autocratic goings on. Amazing. I am in culture shock still. I guess we have been spoilt here.

Keep on spoiling us.

Cheers.

All the best Margo, I am so glad that I can continue to read Webdiary every day.

Margo... congratulations, but... I hope you've made some plans re income! As an unemployed - and, apparently, unemployable - independent scholar with his own website, I'd have to say that there ain't no money in trying to do the right thing, just a lot of work and far too few 'thank yous'.

So... thank you Margo! Without Webdiary, to my mind, there wouldn't be much honest and open debate on politics in Australia's public sphere, so I - selfishly - hope that you can keep it up. Meanwhile, I'll continue to weigh in whenever I feel I've genuinely got something to contribute.

And, if you're ever in Brisbane... I, too, have a couch on offer for the First Lady of Australian journalism!

All the best.

John Henry Calvinist,

Ed Hamish: Thanks John. To yourself and others (Justin and Deb come to mind). Margo's got some things on today but she WILL read all of these and no doubt add comments to many. The support means a lot to her, and to all of us. Fantastic to see the old crowd still shuffling in.

Ed Kerri, I'll take some of my own medicine and read the formatting guidelines more carefully...

Justin, great to see that the Seagull has landed. Welcome to the new premises.

But has anyone seen Roger?

G'day Margo and Hamish. The Sydney Morning Herald have outdone themselves this time, but I also think they have damaged themselves. I would rather read you than them anyway. So onward and upward and the best of luck to you all, I love what you do, keep it up.

Harry, that tooth fairy — personally known to you? I thought it was one of your closest relations.

Damien Hogan, fair enough, but practice what you preach. ‘Bold’ is not a verb.

Editor Hamish: I don't know the context in which Damien used the word, but I did just bold his name.

Dear SWDW (ie Margo - She Who Dares, Wins)
Found your new site almost by accident, via Crikey, and spent an interesting hour browsing the comments. Hope all the moral support translates into ongoing financial support. Following up on Jolanda Chollita's comment, would it be possible for you to set up a bank account, post the account name and number and let your readers make whatever contribution they thought reasonable. If only thirty readers send five bucks each, it would at least keep the coffee flowing in that internet cafe you are inhabiting.

Good luck

Margo,

All the best with the new site.

It is interesting to see the trends in the established mass media.

The continuing slide toward lowest common denominator material (someone previously mentioned F. dating) and an editorial direction that fits the establishment media, political and corporate interests.

Sites like Webdiary are increasingly the future of media as even Rupert Murdoch stated.

The reason why your site will work is that you provide a forum outside of the homogenised.

I have no doubt that the model you come up with will be a commercial as well as journalistic success.

Best regards,

Rob Wearne.

Margo: Hi Rob and hi all. Just found a computer to jump onto after returning from Sydney. I've noticed that unhomogenised milk is making a comeback. I like the cream at the top, don't you? Thanks for checking out the independent Webdiary Rob. Much appreciated.

Ed Kerri, ... but I must agree with Bill and Damien. Just for fun, select an old post that bags someone without reason or argument, and 'reformat' it until you've transformed it into a valuable contribution to the thread. If facillitating the triumph of style over substance is a defensible position would you mind briefly defending it, just to clear the air?

ed Kerri: briefly - comments substance is 'your' job, comments style is ours.

Now that Uncle Sam's bulwark against Evil, Pat Robertson, has nominated assassination as the path to peace and the pursuit of happiness, I'd like to see a thread inviting a list of targets that others think might make the world a better place.

Justin Obodie, there’ll be far too many red herrings for just one bird. Don’t be greedy.

Dear Margo,
My concern is that in the initial stages, getting something like this up and running, you not only need support, you need funds.

I wouldn't like to see Webdiary limited to those that pay a subscription as then it is restrictive and we have enough restrictions to deal with.

However, I do think that at this initial stage there would be many of us who would want to make a "kick off" contribution so that you have some extra money coming in to help get things get underway and to set things up. Every little bit helps. I appreciate that some would not want to donate any funds, and that is fine, that is their choice, but I think not to ask restricts those of us that do want to help Webdiary be successful and are more than happy to donate whatever we can to ensure that you and Web diary don’t suffer from the problem of lack of funds early on. This needs to be successful as it is the only avenue to be heard.

Everybody knows that you need money to make money and as much as you are a wonderful caring person, and so brave to take this on - you need this to be able to sustain you as an individual and be viable as a career. You need and deserve to be able eat and live comfortably. Even smoke if you so desire. You cannot live on love alone or pats on the back and therefore Webdiary cannot succeed without financial support, the initial stages being the most crucial as that is when you either make it or break it.

I think that Webdiary should give those that want to financially support the start up of the Independence of Webdiary an opportunity to help.

Dear Webdiary Team,

I’m a long-time reader, first-time commenter. One of those (many, I suspect) lurkers in the shadows!

The birth of Webdiary five years ago roughly coincided with my move overseas to live and work in NE Asia, which necessitated a greater effort on my behalf to stay in touch with events back home. Fortunately enough, I have had good access to the: time, computer technology, and high-speed internet access, needed to make such a task much simpler than it used to be. (How did ex-pats survive before the internet?)

In that time, Webdiary has consistently been the best source in the Australian blogosphere of news and information, debate, and opinion, about issues pertaining to social justice and equity in the Australian political landscape. For example, the in-depth coverage Margo provided of the Senate hearing into the SIEV-X ‘incident’, and the coverage of asylum seeker issues has been first rate. To the best of my knowledge, no other site on the ’net has come close to providing such detailed and accessible coverage of the nitty-gritty of Senate Estimates Committee investigations as has Webdiary. For this Margo and the team should be heartily congratulated!

In short, Webdiary has become an integral part of my usage of the internet over the last five years. Judging by the length of this comments thread (140+ and growing) I am not alone in this.

Here’s to another 5, 10, 15, and 50 years of the newly independent, unfettered Webdiary!

While I’m here, here’s some free, humble, and unsolicited advice about the way forward for Webdiary, which the Management Team should feel free to totally disregard:

a) Do take the opportunity to do some re-thinking and re-imagining of what Webdiary is and what it can be.

b) Don’t start charging subscription fees to casual users unless you want your readership numbers to go through the floor. The ‘big’ news media companies make this mistake all the time: CNN, and the UK’s ‘Independent Online’, are two examples I can think of off the top of my head. The Australian blogosphere is already a large-ish, and growing market, so there’s plenty of other places for casual users to go where they’ll find blogs dealing with similar issues as Webdiary does, from a similar perspective (John Quiggan, The Road to Surfdom, and Larvatus Prodeo, to name but three).

c) Why not relax some of the rules regarding the formatting, and moderation of contributions? Especially if these are taking up most of the editors’ and Margo’s time, thus, freeing time and resources for Margo to do the stuff she does best; in-depth reporting on the stories everyone else is either too scared or too disinterested to cover. If Webdiary is the experiment in neo-Athenian style democracy that it should be, why not let the spelling, grammar, formatting, and tone, of each individual commenter speak for itself?!? Now that you’re free of the SMH’s corporate shackles, surely you don’t have to place such a premium on ‘professional’, and ‘journalistic’: vetting, formatting, and presentation. If mischief makers of the likes of: A. Mills, T. Blair and their acolytes, want to cause trouble – let them! I strongly suspect that most people who visit Webdiary have the modicum of education and intellect required to filter out the vast majority of what they say. We’re all big girls, and big boys, surely?

Oh, well, that’s all for now. Speak to you again in another five years! ;-)

Dear Margo, - best of luck -you have the courage of your convictions and that is admirable. Tessa.

Hi Bob Wall. I am relocating from the Gold Coast to Melbourne and have been busy with this chore for the past two weeks. Nice to be remembered.

I will surface (in good humour, I hope) in another two weeks.

Thanks Bob, glad to find you here mate but where is C Parsons? I may get a little bit hungry without him, but then again I think not. Yes Bill even without CP I'm sure no one will go hungry, plenty to go round; does that make me a lefty loony greenie commo or what?

Congratulations Margo. In retrospect it was probably inevitiable, particularly since your little area of genuine discussion and dissent left the rest of the Fairfax empire looking so lame.