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Occupy Webdiary

Around the globe people are gathering to protest against rampant greed.

It is great to see people at last taking to the streets and demanding change. We can only hope that this movement grows and eventually brings about the systemic changes that are needed.

We do indeed live in a global village and what we do in one corner of our village does affect people living in other parts of the village.

I believe it is greed that is a root cause of climate change denial. The people who deny the threat of global warming are the same people who are unwilling to change their way of life so that others in the village can survive. People who want it all now and are unwilling to leave anything for generations to come.

I do not like living in a village where we allow our children to die of starvation.

Poverty is the principal cause of hunger. The causes of poverty include poor people's lack of resources, an extremely unequal income distribution in the world and within specific countries, conflict, and hunger itself. As of 2008 (2005 statistics), the World Bank has estimated that there were an estimated 1,345 million poor people in developing countries who live on $1.25 a day or less.

Or are willing to put at risk the lives of future generations.

Rapid, sustained, and effective mitigation based on coordinated global and regional action is required to avoid “dangerous climate change” regardless of how it is defined. Weaker targets for 2020 increase the risk of serious impacts, including the crossing of tipping points, and make the task of meeting 2050 targets more difficult and costly. Setting a credible long-term price for carbon and the adoption of policies that promote energy efficiency and low-carbon technologies are central to effective mitigation.

Equity Dimensions

Climate change is having, and will have, strongly differential effects on people within and between countries and regions, on this generation and future generations, and on human societies and the natural world. An effective, well-funded adaptation safety net is required for those people least capable of coping with climate change impacts, and equitable mitigation strategies are needed to protect the poor and most vulnerable. Tackling climate change should be seen as integral to the broader goals of enhancing socioeconomic development and equity throughout the world.

Some have been critical of the occupy movement but if ever we have need to change it is now.

The youngsters sleeping on the street of our cities demanding change should be supported and encouraged.

We need change now!


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Irreplicable Delusion

Okay, Richard, there was never a reply button, I never saw a "Log in to Reply" notice, and none of the comments here are inset and ordered to associate them with earlier posts, as though they were replies or responses to them.  Fine.

Can you recommend a psychiatrist? 

Richard:  Your memory's fine.  As you say, we're being helped to keep the conversations going by a kind volunteer, and very glad to be able to continue to provide the opportunity.

Not illegal, whew!

Okay, bad choice of word. But Fiona, I used to see an Edit button beside something I had written, and I assumed, was told by the site, that any such edited thing would again go to the moderators.

After all, there was once in the English language the word "edition".  Back in those days it was possible for something that had been published to be revised and published again.

Back then, they called the second publication of the thing a second "edition".

I don't understand why the practice has receded into history or why you consider it "completely inappropriate".

As I say, there was once an "Edit" button.  And there was once a "Reply" button.  Both are gone, and so has the shortcut to an article by clicking on its title at the side of the first screen.

Your "wonderful and friendly nerd person" needs to be doing a lot more.  Sorry for the tone of that, I'm sure he or she is providing a free voluntary service, but I'll let it stand.

I really don't know why you don't look into Linux, which is free, install it on any old computer, download, compile and install free blog software such as WordPress, and become independent of your "friendly nerd". 

 Richard: Michael I'm pretty sure that Reply button hasn't been around for years.  At any rate the editorial settings are now (especially in such a legally "interesting" era) as they need to be.

Is Curran a Coward?

Alan, it would appear you have not got the courage to admit you got it wrong (as usual) regarding the "unlawfulness" of the students' behaviour at UC Davis.

Here is a video the students put together, which includes an interview with a police chief who adds new meaning to the term "fuckwit", a shell-shocked but extremely apologetic chancellor desperate not to join the unemployed, and a bunch of peaceful kids.

I'll leave it up to others to decide whether the title of this post is worthy of our resident bear hunter, but it was the best iJustin could do.

Fiona: Psych to iJustin, as you were, lad... ;)

tis a far far better thing you do, than iJustin would have did

Dear Psych; thank you, and apologies for the anatomical conundrum - it was far too delicious to resist ;-)

i am an animal, but you all know that.

Fiona: We all are, iJustin, in our own peculiar ways.

Mr Dunmore edits himself

In case Scott Dunmore doesn't revisit his "missing the point" post, I have the following message for him:

Scott, if you do that one more time, I shall block you. It is totally unacceptable to change a published post except via the moderators.

I thought that this loophole only existed on Webdiarists' own threads, but apparently not.

Please everyone, self-editing once a post has been published is just not on. We moderators do actually read what you write, and only publish when we are satisfied that the post does not contravene Webdiary's own etiquette, not to mention the more important matter of legal liability.


Fiona, no understand.  Please explain whether the editing of my own post by me, after it has been posted, is illegal, and if not, how do I do it?

Fiona: It's not "illegal", Michael, but given that this is a moderated site it is completely inappropriate for the reasons that I outlined in my post to Scott. It is a matter that we have taken up with our wonderful and friendly nerd person.

Compassion the American way...

Compassion the American way

As cities around the country have swept Occupy Wall Street camps from their plazas and parks in recent weeks, a number of mayors and city officials have argued that by providing shelter to the homeless, the camps are endangering the public and even the homeless themselves.

Yet in many of those cities, services for the homeless are severely underfunded. The cities have spent millions of dollars to police and evict the protesters, but they've been shutting down shelters and enacting laws to prohibit homeless from sleeping overnight in public.

In Oakland, Atlanta, Denver and Portland, Ore., there are at least two homeless people for every open bed in the shelter system, according to the most recent data from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. In Salt Lake City, Utah, and Chapel Hill, N.C. -- two other cities that have evicted protesters from their encampments -- things are better but far from ideal. In Chapel Hill, according to the HUD study, there are 121 beds for 135 homeless people, and in Salt Lake City, 1,627 for 1,968.

Heather Maria Johnson, a civil rights attorney at the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, said most cities in the U.S. lack adequate affordable housing, emergency or transitional housing, or other social services for people who are either homeless or are in danger of losing their homes. "This was true before the current economic crisis and remains true today, particularly in areas that have cut social services due to budget concerns," Johnson said.

Today the USA, tomorrow Australia.

Sleep well, Alan Curran.

Sleep well

Fiona, I have watched Webdiary go down the gurgler due to people like yourself and Justin and Marilyn.

I shall not be posting again.

Just tell iJustin and Marilyn to keep taking the tablets.

I assure I will sleep well.

The problem of the homeless

Fiona, the Occupy movement has an answer to the problems of the homeless.

The Occupy Oakland group announced on Twitter earlier this week that its general assembly “just passed a proposal to encourage the occupation of bank-owned/foreclosed and abandoned properties across #Oakland.”

I am sure Alan would love that.

POTUS - just another name for collusion

Good article by Naomi Wolf:

The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy

The violent police assaults across the US are no coincidence. Occupy has touched the third rail of our political class's venality


So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.

Sadly, Americans this week have come one step closer to being true brothers and sisters of the protesters in Tahrir Square. Like them, our own national leaders, who likely see their own personal wealth under threat from transparency and reform, are now making war upon us.

Don't you think it is about time we face up to the bleeding obvious regarding POTUS? He's a fucking fraud, and sooo very silent about the Occupy "problem". 

BTW - did you know that the members of the US congress made themselves exempt from insider trading laws? They can quite happily accept IPOs and buy shares in companies that will be affected by their legislation. Now that is a benefit worth fighting for.

This is getting better by the day.

Occupy The Devil's Metal

A positive interview about the Occupy Movement. For those who watch (Alan, Geoff) you may note that each time police have done stupid stuff it only "doubled the turnout" and "energised" the participants.

That said, the lad being interviewed said many police were on side, also many servicemen have had enough.

If the Occupy Movement can get the sympathies of the military and cops then we are looking at a whole new ball game - a rather exciting one.

If you happen to watch the interview the guy asking the questions once suggested that if everyone in the US (300 million people) bought just 1oz of physical silver it would bring down JP Morgan and an unknown number of related corporate counter-parties.

It makes sense, and if you check the numbers (of available silver) as compared to the number of times the underlying derivative (ag) is hedged (up to x 100 or more) then all hell could break out in the derivatives and futures market.

The devils metal (silver) is the canary in the derivatives cage. If the ETFs (run by the banks) have naked short sold silver to the extend analysts claim, then it would not be very difficult to bring down a corrupt bank, along with the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, and the CFTC which has the responsibility, as a regulator, of making sure everything is kosher - which they don't, because they are in bed with the banks and corrupt brokers; the most recent of which, run by one of Obama's fund raisers, just stole $1.2 billion out of the trading accounts of his many thousands of clients, accounts that were supposed to be untouchable, like a bank. Such has never happened before, not even in the depression, but it has now and put the wind right through the market. The perpetrator, Obama's fund raising mate (ex-Goldman Sachs) will walk scott free no doubt - but should go to gaol.

Anyway, if only 1% of the 99% went out and invested in just one ounce of silver it would make quite a difference. And if the Occupy Movement could find someone to trust (financially) then their investment could be used to attack the highly leveraged (corrupt) ETF's in a co-ordinated, and devastating manner (however, such a "Trust" would also become a target).

At worst Occupy would push the price of silver up; at best would be to expose the corruption and co-operation between the market manipulators and the regulatory bodies, who spend most of the time in bed.

The number of Comex open futures (5,000oz) contracts (at present) standing for March 12 delivery = 45,175 or nearly 226 million ounces of silver (about a third of annual production). Amount of underlying derivative to cover the trades, nowhere near that, not even close. 

What happens when they can't honour the contracts?

If they don't have the silver then you have the option of getting get paid out in cash (not suppoosed to happen but it does), a shit load of cash, way above spot (to shut you up).

And if you demand physical delivery? That's when it will get really interesting, because the game is up, and all the king's horses and all the king's men won't be any use whatsoever.

Anyway, that's just a bit of a dream, and sometimes it is good to dream.

Worldwide Unrest

The Arab Spring has become simply one part of what is now very clearly a worldwide unrest occurring everywhere: Oxi in Greece, indignados in Spain, students in Chile, the Occupy movements that have now spread to 800 cities in North America and elsewhere, strikes in China and demonstrations in Hong Kong, multiple happenings across Africa.

The "1968 current" is expanding - despite repression, despite concessions, despite co-option.

And geopolitically, across the Arab world, the success of the various players has been limited, and in some cases counterproductive. Tahrir Square has become a symbol across the world. Yes, many Islamist movements have been able to express themselves openly in Arab states where they could not do so earlier. But so have the secular left forces. The trade unions are rediscovering their historic role.

Those who believe that Arab unrest, that world unrest, is a passing moment will discover in the next major bubble burst (which we can anticipate quite soon) that the "1968 current" will no longer be so easily contained.

Immanuel Wallerstein is a professor in the department of sociology at Yale University and author of some 30 books, including The Modern World System - published in four volumes, with a further two anticipated. Prof Wallerstein's decades of work, critical of global capitalism and supporting 'anti-systemic movements' have led to him being recognised as a world-renowned expert in social analysis.

As worldwide unrest gathers momentum, who knows what the future will hold? It will certainly be a roller coaster ride.

Everyone wants a voice so it will be chaos. Tyrants all over are in trouble.

Only global democracy will channel the unleashed energy into global good.

Occupy rubbish

John,The Occupy movements you talk about are a scruffy bunch of layabouts who don't want a job, in fact they make sure they will not get employed by the way they present themselves. It's a pity they don't channel the unleashed energy into looking for a job.

How on earth can you say The trade unions are rediscovering their historic role. They have just had to back down in the Qantas dispute, and then the Victorian nurses had to back down.

I just hope you are not looking to the Arab nations for Democacy it ain't going to happen, at least not in the next 1000 years.

Alan's Requiem: Wreck'em Again

The Occupy movements you talk about are a scruffy bunch of layabouts who don't want a job

Alan, those who spend most of their day at the pointy end of polar bear's penis have little time for homework, it would appear.

Half of those surveyed are employed full time, and 20 per cent work part time. Of the remaining 30 per cent, nearly half - 13.1 per cent - identified as unemployed.

13.1 percent identified as unemployed. U6 in the US was 16.1% (but more like 22%) in October 2011. It would follow the unemployed are under-represented.

Capitalism's End: Bang or Whimper?

Wallerstein's fascinating. He's been predicting for some time using a pattern called Kondratiev waves that the end of capitalism is nigh. What he is uncertain of is what will come next, and whether it will be a smooth or bloody transition.

By my reckoning, he expected it to have happened a couple of years ago. Which does create the risk that he sees the end of capitalism under every stone.

BTW, John, since we last discussed the concept of world democracy, I've been busy writing an article, and just sent it off to our editors. I expect it to be up in the next few days, and look forward to your comments.

The end is Sigh

Jay, as the saying goes: "No use predicting the end of the world, it's only gunna happen once."


A whimper, not a bang

Not in our Name

If we want to call ourselves a democracy, then we are responsible. 

World Democracy?

Jay, democracy barely works even in small nations. How then would it work with four or five billion voters?

Besides, the U.S. would want to run it and would use its armed forces to ensure that it did. And we all know that American democracy has been so corrupted that screams have been heard coming from the graves of the Ancient Greeks!

Going back to small, close-knit communities is the only way the world will survive. Big is not better because it gives too many opportunities to psychos and megalomaniacs!

The best of a bad bunch

Daniel, true - Democracy barely works, but we it's the best we have

  • True -  we need small, close-knit communities. But we also need a macro governance structure - to prevent war and oversee trade.
  • False - the US won't be in charge, not with less than 5% of the vote.

But, but, but!

Jay, the US has only 6% of the world's population and it is largely running the world already.

It has military bases in almost every nation (including ours) and, with its ex-colonialist allies, is forcing the world to engage in endless war which profits it immensely!

Macro governance does not prevent war. It enables it! Look at the UN.

Regarding your 'best we have' observation, it may be true but there is much room for improvement and all of us should be working towards that end! 

After all, we're intelligent, aren't we? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Sigh.


Missing the point

Daniel, if you think the US is profiting from its endless wars you are mistaken. It's wars are a net import when it explodes munitions in other countries and has helped  the US to get in the parlous financial state it's in. (And I'll use apostrophes where I think fit.) The only people to profit (at the expense of the long suffering tax payer,) are those of the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower warned America of all those years ago. Too bad no one listened.

As for "room for improvement" agreed but don't ever expect any; as Churchill observed, democracy is the worst system of government except for all the other kinds. Now you (and Geoff) can understand my anarchist sentiments.

Fiona: Scott, if you do that one more time, I shall block you. It is totally unacceptable to change a published post except via the moderators.

Thomas Jefferson

Macro government infers the centralisation of power - I don't like the sound of that. Anyway, would Russia, China, North Korea and ME nations want to cede sovereignty to a higher authority?

Our country is too large to have all its affairs directed by a single government. Public servants at such a distance and from under the eye of their constituents, must, from the circumstance of distance, be unable to administer and overlook all the details necessary for the good government of the citizens, and the same circumstance, by rendering direction impossible to their constituents, will invite the public agents to corruption, plunder and waste. And I do verily believe, that if the principle were to prevail, of a common law being in force in the United States...it would become the most corrupt government on the earth..." Thomas Jefferson Aug 13, 1800


Dear Mr Curran, so nice to see you back, and not only on-topic (for a change), but also - as always - spreading your customary sweetness and light.


Fiona, the sweetness and light is just a natural gift I have along with an ability to pick out fools, which is why I don't reply to Justin's attempts at humour.

Fools rush in where where (even) grizzly bears fear to tread

As the saying goes, Alan, "never argue with fools, they only drag you down to their level, then beat you with their experience."

But in the case who has been left looking like the (inexperienced) fool?

What laws did these kids break?

Whom did they threaten?

Three questions Alan, three very easy questions.

Why not try to answer them Alan, come on lad, show a bit of backbone, act like a fucking man for once in your digital life, and answer the questions.

Occupy the game

This is video and pictures of Police Lieutenant John Pike who pepper-sprayed the students at UC Davis on November 18th, 2011. Look at how casual and confident he does his “job” of putting peaceful protesting students in the hospital.

Not so fun fact: Lt. John Pike is using military grade pepper spray that is meant to be sprayed at a distance of 15 ft. Commercial pepper spray is 1,000 times hotter than a jalapeno pepper. It has been linked to cardiac, respiratory and neurological problems, and even sudden death.

This video shows police using pepper spray on students peacefully sitting down on the pavement.

How can the US lecture, Burma, China or anyone else on human rights?

Democracy is under threat and we are letting US marines into Australia?

Occupy stupidity

John, I asume the students were asked to move on by the police because they were breaking the law.

They did not move, so they were sprayed.

What are these students studying?, Stupidity.

The US marines might spend some money in that grubby little town of yours.

Wrecked'em - Curran's Concerto in B flat

Hey Alan, it would appear your assumptions are as usual 100% wrong. Mate it is obvious you now spend all your time hunting bears and no time whatsoever paying attention to the bleeding obvious.

Listen to this, it's not the sound of a randy bear, but you should enjoy it just as much as your hunting expeditions.

And if you're not in a listening mood then have a read of this:

US police suspended over pepper spray incident.

Not only that, the police chief is in deep shit, and the university chancellor is under pressure to resign, having claimed to have permitted this bastardy in the interests of safety - fancy that, all those years at Uni only to be exposed as a total fuck wit.

So there ya go, poor chancellor apparently has a perchant for hunting bears, and assisting the Occupy Movement get global exposure - she wasn't one of your teachers Alan?

BTW, the students were on campus and had committed no crime, as was obvious, but not obvious to our resident bear hunter.

Now off ya go lad, take ya pop gun (we know you don't need bullets) and enjoy yourself in the usual predictable painful way.

Classical Gas - by Alan Curran and the Spray Peppers

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi.

Yes Alan, it would be safe to assume the students were breaking the law, but would law what that be, lad?

Having observed the photos one would be tempted to ask:

  • Were they blocking vehicle traffic?
  • Were they interfering with pedestrian traffic?
  • Were they interfering with commerce?
  • Were they behaving in a violent or threatening manner?

Nope, they were just sitting on their bums on a pathway in a park or a school, doing what everybody in a democratic nation should be allowed to do - demonstrate peacefully.

It was a peaceful event, that could have been managed without violence, and with mutual respect, the way any public event can be managed. Every year we have literally hundreds of thousands of people participating in all sorts of events promoted by corporations and our governments; all managed with everybody's interest at heart. The pollies get credo, and the corporations get cash and brand exposure (cosy).

There is no reason why those wishing to participate in peaceful bona fide demonstrations should not be allowed to do so in peace and in security; it should be no different to attending the year end fireworks, or a concert in the park. In fact, we have marches and demonstrations quite regularly, most of which are peaceful and go unnoticed by most.

But when a peaceful demonstration is directed at government and corporate corruption/greed (not so cosy), then it is safe to assume those who wish to have a peaceful demonstration will be treated like cockroaches, and encouraged to react violently, which gives the greedy bastards what they want.

That said, such unnecessary, ignorant and bloody-minded (domestic) stupidity as recently displayed by the Democratic Republic of Amerika has now been witnessed the world over, not just the video of the pepper spray incident posted by John, but videos of a moron cop throwing an explosive tear gas grenade into a group of people giving assistance to a war vet who had just been hit by a rubber bullet.

In a war zone that would be a crime, as it is illegal to prevent medical aid for the wounded, especially violently.

Now, what do you think that type of moronic behaviour is going do to the momentum of the Occupy Movement?

Will it close shop and go home, or will it motivate the movement to stand up to the stupidity of the police, and especially those corrupt pricks who control them?

From what I can see, the continued stupidity of those moronic police thugs, under the direction of corrupt politicians and the ultra-corrupt financial sector will ensure that the movement will survive, gain sympathy, grow, and hopefully lead to the removal and incarceration of the financial and political criminals (those Obama has to protect for obvious reasons) who have enabled and blessed the most blatant theft of taxpayer cash in history - resulting in the debt slavery of many.

So, Alan, the peaceful students didn't move, and then they got sprayed by an ignorant pig in vivid colour, and now the whole world can no longer ignore the fact that Amerika is going the way of Russia, China, and those countries it claims to be keeping us free from.

So who are the stupid ones? Peaceful students wanting honest democracy, or ignorant cops whose actions only promote, and consolidate, what could be the most significant public uprising in history?

It is no measure of health to be adjusted to a profoundly sick society - Jiddu Krishnamurti

It would appear the exploited many are now looking for a truly healthy society, free from the lies, stupidity, and greed of those who control them - and good luck to them, and bad luck at all those morons who support the glory of fascism and the might of brutality. Would that be you, Alan?

Anyway, beats me why those students didn't take Pumpkin's advice - always carry an umbrella (preferably adorned with the face of Obama - who hasn't got a bloody clue what to do about Occupy, let alone anything else) - would have made all the difference, and looked great on camera.

Maybe next time...and there will be a next time.

Must be a leftie joke

What a quaint idea, using the army to actually protect the people? I don't think it will catch on somehow.

A leftie joke? We should have it stuffed.

There's a whole "progressive ... tough ... liberal" parallel universe out there isn't there Justin?

"For their efforts, they are being assaulted by a police force that has been turned, over the last decade of a fraudulent, trumped-up "War" on Terror, into a kind of American Gestapo.."

Gestapo. People who are capable of writing this stuff are badly in need of sudden fast dose of life experience. It is best they wear hoodies and cover their faces.

blowflies in the milk of human kindness

Things seem to have changed since the last comments here. The authorities, worldwide, have come down on the sit ins in a coordinated move. Sad to see the authorities making war on their own people, sometimes violently - but news does get out, despite the cowardly Murdoch-inspired press boycott of fair coverage of the Occupy events.

I disagree that it is leaderless, it has its articulators in the form of Jeffrey Sachs, Stiglitz and others of the calibre; rational top economists and commentators and the villain is very plain to see: globalising neoliberalism in the more extreme form it has taken this century.

Whether people talk about the Euro crisis, Third World rebellions, enviro, protracted recessions even in the USA itself, famines, the continued arrogance and greed of people best represented here by Joyce and Qantas, wars kept running for reasons opposite to those stated by politicians, corrosion of the justice system and ongoing social infrastructure cuts across the planet, they are talking of the same thing, but describing different symptoms related to the same disease - the takeover of the political apparatus by politicans and big business.

They don't want revolution, they just want their democracy back and the system working rationally again; no confusion there.

Humanity has come to exist for the convenience of the one per cent, but the economy should work for the people, not people as serfs for corrupt, ignorant, arrogant oligarchs.


Paul, I would consider Sachs, Stiglitz and the like more like patrons than genuine leaders who are dedicated, train, march, fight and die with the troops.

And yes, the troops do want their democracy back, but that is going to be very difficult. I doubt if it can be done peacefully - the powers that be can always choose to engage men riding camels. Of course, it will be the fault of the protesters as usual.

These days the greedy bastards have far too much power to tolerate any type of significant movement against the establishment (big money).

Maybe the best way to bring the greedy bastards down would be to play their game - the money game and use the collective buying and selling power of the people to scare the shit out of, and or destroy, targetted corporations.

Such action could be done off the streets, would not involve violence and would hit the greedy bastards where it hurts most.

There have been attempts thus far to do such (moving money from banks into credit unions etc), but these attempts have had minimal impact so far. Maybe with a little bit of creativity that has the potential to change.

Occupy Democracy could well think about corporatising itself to become the most influential hedge fund ever. Ironic, but cute, don't ya think.

It really wouldn't be all that hard for OD to commit financial bribery, hold publicly owned companies to ransom (and by association the government of the day), and in general terrorise (financially) those corporations (and politicians) that use their power to rob the punters. In other words behave like big money, and play the game like big money.

If one thinks about how the greedy bastrads play the game, then why can't the punters financially organise and play the very same game to rob the greedy bastards? I'm sure the Sachs and Stiglitz types would make valuable advisors, and or directors in such a case (but they may not live long).

One way or the other this movement must get smart (now there's the leader) and creative wise this game will end up bloody - and that would be something to regret.

So there ya go, rather than wasting time occupying a street, or the pub, why not use the internet to Occupy Democray - iOD

A Hopeless Lernaean Hydra Movement ?????????????????????

 The idea of a structureless leaderless movement sounds rather sexy in its own way.

How do the powers that be co-ordinate PR attacks on a movement that has 1,027 gripes?

How do the powers that be decapitate, and cauterize a movement without a single head, but thousands, or millions of heads?

In a word, what is it that makes the punters angry?

Trust (or actually the lack of trust) - we all know this.

You see, these days it has become apparent to all and sundry that the taxpayer is getting shafted; many wouldn't have a clue about how the powers that be go about it, but that doesn't really matter. What the punters know is the greedy bastards, who have control of global finances, fucked up badly and have been rewarded for doing so by their leaders, while the taxpayer foots the bill.

Critics of this movement claim the protesters are ill equipped to understand the complexities that have caused this economic and social melt down, or whatever.  But you don't have to have intimate knowledge of nuclear physics to know a fusion bomb makes a really big bang.

And what is now known by all and sundry, to some degree or another, is that those who lead us, and those who have engineered this financial fuck up are not to be trusted; they act only for their greedy interests, and will continue to do so unless made to stop.

And that is the guts of it.

The best thing that could happen is for the whole show to be demolished, the greedy bastards locked up for a very long time (or made to pay back the cash they have stolen), and then, and only then, could we  rebuild an equitable financial structure underpinned with integrity, and trust. 

Shit! it's nearly opening time, and it's Friday, time to occupy the pub - now that's what iJustin calls a protest!

And of course you are all invited to join...as long as you shout, hehe.

It's wrong to wreck the world

The Occupy Wall Street movements and climate action movements stand on the same moral ground and affirm the same moral principles: It’s wrong to wreck the world. It’s wrong to wreck the health and hopes of others. An economic system that forces most of the people to bear the impacts of the recklessness of a few powerful profiteers, to assume the burdens of others’ privilege, and to pay the real costs of destructive industries in the currency of their health and the hopes of their children—that system is immoral. And when, to enrich a powerful few, that system threatens to disrupt forever the great planetary cycles that support all the lives on Earth? This is moral monstrosity on a cosmic scale.

If you are wondering why the occupy movement is growing rapidly around the globe, it is because more and more people are rejecting the old economy and looking for a more moral way of living.  

Occupy the bowls club

It's a load of crap John. All this socialist shit I mean. It's been tried. It ends in tears.  It can work a treat in communities of up to about 150 but after that it need poker machines. Just thought I should let you know.

It doesn't get much worse than this

"They have become little more than bullies with guns, and if there is anything the Arab Spring has taught us, it is that guns are utterly useless against an idea."

I have just caught up with this thread and this caught my eye. It's from a  quote John linked.

Someone capable of writing this really has no idea about anything at all. It pretty much sums up why this idiotic movement really is something contemptiible. It's a pity they hide behind masks and psuedonyms when  they sprout disgusting and offensive crap like this.

What kind of a spoiled moronic mind, of any age, could really compare the situation of these people to what is going on in the streets of Damascus as we speak and not see at least how insulting and offensive it is to those unarmed civilians right now being butchered by the battle tanks of one of  the murderous tyrants that rule pretty much all that part of the world from Tehran to Beiruit and pretty much always have?

Bear it mind that if the phrase "bullies with guns" means anything at all, it means the cops standing around doing their jobs making sure everybody is OK. And it means the militaries of the liberal democracies that guarantee the rights of gutless dickheads like this bloke to say poisonous muck like this  and the men and women who staff them. Three of whom just now came home in coffins  at a ceremony at a military base not far from where I write this. 

Occupy protest movements around the world

Geoff, thanks for your thoughtful comment.

I thought you might be interested in this.

The Occupy Wall Street movement has reached India now with activists including Gandhi’s grandson Tushar Gandhi protesting on Dalal Street near the Bombay Stock Exchange. India has become the 83rd country and Mumbai the 1,501st city to stage the protests, which started in New York against greedy capitalism and corporate self indulgence, according to news reports.

The point I’m making is that Occupy Wall Street is more likely a genuine people’s movement than Hazare’s, and if it gathers momentum like it steadily seems to be doing, perhaps it will lead to real change in America. It’s unlikely much will happen in the subcontinent as long its people remain spiritually bankrupt – our crooked politicians are only a symptom of a far deeper malaise that grips the country.

Or this:

Occupy London protesters take part in a two-way livestream connecting demonstrations at St Paul's Cathedral with those in Damascus and Homs in Syria. They claim it is the first such event in the UK, and part of their attempts to link protest movements around the world. Around 50 UK-based Syrians took part in the protest, which streamed live to Syria

The occupy movement is protesting against all "bullies with guns".  The movement is global and growing rapidly.

Part A

Sorry John, I'm still not buying. Of course it is global and whether it is growing rapidly or fizzing out or transforming or splitting is impossible to say. The problem is what is it? It has no structure. It is different in different countries. I look at and see more than just a few dangerous kooks.

It does not surprise me that "it" is trying to kick up trouble in India for example.. I'll be more impressed when it tries it on in Pakistan or Iran. Or any other country where they would risk attack from the ruling tyrant's military.

If they have managed to link up somewhere with the Syrians and give them support that is a good thing of course. I'll give you a better answer after I've had a chance to read your links.

I do like the human microphone though. It's the funniest thing since Life of Brian.

Occupy Iran and Pakistan no problem

This weekend, thousands upon thousands of Pakistanis turned out in support of the Occupy Wall Street protests that now extend to cities across the globe. Imran Khan rallied 100,000 people in Lahore, according to police and media estimates, to pump out his anti-American (and, therefore, anti-government) message. His rally came on the heels of Nawaz Sharif’s in the same city, where the former PM called for an end to the current administration.

Occupy the 'Gabba

Mate, did you look at that link? It's a report on the populist campaign of a Pakistani politician, well known to Australians, whose policies may well be as fast as his bowling.

Nothing to do with this thing you keep yabbering on about. What is it? Occupy? These people should make up their minds. Are they for it or against it. I've got one for them. Occupy Palestine.

Anyway John I  accept something good has come of all this. The human microphone. Without question the funniest thing since the first recorded use of the human microphone.

We have system failure

Occupy Wall St is simply the kid in the fairy tale, saying what everyone knows but has, until now, been afraid to say – the emperor has no clothes – we have system failure. They’ve given focus to what people were already seeing and feeling; that our problem is not just debt, or inequality, or a recession, or corporate influence or ecological damage. It’s the whole package – the system is profoundly broken and beyond incremental reform.

Paul Gilding points to the fact that the whole system is coming down.

So it’s time for “the 1%” to engage. Ironically, if they listen carefully, they might even find in Occupy Wall St the movement that saves capitalism from itself. Markets when properly constructed and guided by governments who are acting for the collective good are a powerful way to bring many positive things to society. But uncontrolled markets, where greed takes over and social benefit takes a back seat, are more than capable of causing systemic collapse. Then we will all lose and there’ll be nowhere for anyone to hide.

The best Govt. money can buy is no longer good enough

On one level, today's protesters are asking for little: A chance to use their skills, the right to decent work at decent pay, a fairer economy and society. Their hope is evolutionary, not revolutionary. But, on another level, they are asking for a great deal: A democracy where people, not dollars, matter, and a market economy that delivers on what it is supposed to do.

The two are related: As we have seen, unfettered markets lead to economic and political crises. Markets work the way they should only when they operate within a framework of appropriate government regulations; and that framework can be erected only in a democracy that reflects the general interest - not the interests of the 1%. The best government that money can buy is no longer good enough.

Joseph E Stiglitz is University Professor at Columbia University, a Nobel laureate in economics, and the author of Freefall: Free Markets and the Sinking of the Global Economy.

Bullies with guns

There are many and varied voices which have erupted from captivity which suggest methods by which we the people can reclaim our rightful place as our own rulers and each other's subject at once. In order to reclaim our human dignity and make progress towards natural order, a collective state where the people live in harmony with one another in naturally organized chaos, it is useful to examine the birth of the republics which today have become something grotesque and unrecognizable. Attempt after attempt was made to force monarchs to dictate the will of their subjects, but these attempts were made in ignorance of the fact that the very nature and structure of the kingdoms was not compatible with what the people desired. Facing a global order which could not advance any farther and had reached the end of its useful lifespan, individuals began to realize the increasingly undeniable fact that an entirely new order had to be devised to replace the old kingdoms. We have reached a similar point today. Society's process of collective consciousness and consensus has advanced beyond the point that the republics can follow. In response to this, a select few have hijacked the republics in order to bring them backwards while the people march forwards. As difficult as it is to accept, the time has indeed come to tearfully say goodbye to the republics. They are artifacts of a beautiful age, yet in their age have become irrelevant to the progress of society, and in fact have become a snarling, grotesque weight which fights progress at every turn.

The form of the global order's replacement is not mine to decide. It is not yours, it is not your neighbor's. The global order's form is for the globe to decide collectively. For this reason, my identity will not be disclosed. I will present no idea for the future's form other than the fact that society has advanced beyond the point where the republics can exist in their current form. Go forth, and reclaim your dignity. If you fear the republics, imagine this. You are no longer represented in the republics. Therefore, their laws, their edicts, their decrees have no legitimate authority over you. They are just as illegitimate as if I attempted to dictate the terms of your life from behind my keyboard. They have become little more than bullies with guns, and if there is anything the Arab Spring has taught us, it is that guns are utterly useless against an idea.

This is an extract from a piece on Occupy Wall Street.

It captures the feeling of the moment, and many of us who feel that the nation state(republic) has passed its used by date and something new is slowly developing.  A wonderful vision.

A challenge to church, business and politics

Miliband is careful to avoid endorsing the "long list of diverse and often impractical proposals" of the protesters. But he says their activities are a symptom of a wider crisis caused by record unemployment, rising inflation, squeezed living standards and turmoil in the eurozone which, he says, adds to the "sense that the economy is on the brink".

He says: "Certainly, few people struggling to makes ends meet and worried about what the future holds for their children will have either the time or the inclination to camp outside a cathedral. And many people will not agree with the demands or like the methods of the protesters. But they still present a challenge: to the church and to business – and also to politics."

Ed Milibrand is seeing the occupy movement as a challenge to the system.

It is about time our political leaders took notice of the OWS movement.

As the Occupy movement continues to grow it will certainly have am effect on future elections.

It is great to see a global discussion on politics and serious consideration about ways to improve our political systems.

A grassroots organisation with global reach and instant communications provided by the Internet. It's going to be world-changing.


You see an increasingly feeble trend in Leadership in Britain over time. Since New Labour under Blair, there have followed boyish or metrosexual leaders after the Hugh Grant mould, from the Milliband bros to Cameron and a couple of his sidekicks, marvellous subjects indeed for the wit of cartoonist Martin Rowson of The Guardian. But Britain is openly an American outpost these days, on the other side of the channel is Europe, troubled but still relatively on a par with Britain as part of a powerful European bloc. Germany is really about where Britain was thirty years ago as a big power, but is counterbalanced or enhanced by relations with the Chinese, different parts of the Islamic and Mediterranean worlds and the Russians.

Equally, much of what used to be Britain has been either globalised and Americanised or Euro-ised. Like much of the Anglosphere, Australia has been largely integrated into a dominant military network mostly controlled by the USA and its Wall St and Mili-ed-industrial arms, although the Americans had to take a backward step after the overt and crude Bush-Cheney grab for power that ended poorly with expensive and inconclusive wars in the Middle East and the brazen Wall St and global GFM, then bail out, of 2007-8 that much of the world is suffering the side effects now.

But although Obaman America is more subtle, it is also neoliberal in many ways, though albeit with a dose of statist caution that enables it to keep up with the camel that is Europe. The US's influence in all places through the world remains strong, as the US and Europe still have too much to lose by developing any serious enmity just yet.

For heaven's sake, didn't the world learn from the Australian bailout, Rudd's finest hour, or even Obama's half measure for the USA, ruined by the idiot superstitious reactionary right and its Tparty activists two or three months ago?

Had the Europeans shown a little gorm in bailing out Greece more competently last month, the cracks would not have widened. But now the influence of big money In Switzerland, the City of London and Germany coupled with genuine conflicts of interests amongst the main European powers mean Europe stays somewhat destabilised.

As long as the recession continues and a younger generation learns new tech as everyday as to them as to what is particular for earlier generations, especially with electronics and a knowledge, ideas, and creativity economy - a tertiary level economy - discontent will continue. If conditions do not also improve in large parts of the globe, more Egypts, Syrias, Greeces and the like will maintain and continue to broadcast anger. This is just at the time the global Establishment has launched an arrogant and greedy campaign aimed at locals as the public everywhere are expected to assume more burdens for big capital and big politics with big defence and technology punted on the continuing military techno synchronicity that realists argue leads to tensions for control of an apparent global power structure or more nutritional parts of this. Stalinism also failed, its last relics in Saddam Hussein, Mubarak and Gaddafi are gone, apart for that curiosity that is the Two Koreas.

The fault line is now along a sort ad hoc liberalism which moves to develop or preserve social liberalism or social democracy, or slips towards authoritarianism. The worst examples are still to be found in poor, torn, battered Africa. The era since the high point of opportunity fifty years ago has certainly been a tribute to human-ness.

The leitmotif for the age is Murdoch's tabloid media shutdown of reporting of the Occupy movements that saw the wonder of Egypt eventuate, as restlessness migrated to the West, responding to the provocations of Cameron's vile Tory budget in Britain and the Wall St andT party antics in the USA.

It will be interesting to see what effect the Joyce antics will have on Australian public opinion.

When will Australians, particularly Hansonists, but also anti-science phobics and fundamentalist geese finally realise that the Gordon Geckos of this world are not their friend? And that compassion and wisdom are not their enemy?


The fault was, of course, that of successive governments - allowing a private sector monopoly to develop.

I watched the news about engine trouble on an international Qantas flight, that then diverted. The newscaster was smiling!

Keep the experiment going.

The Occupy gatherings do not yet constitute a coherent movement with demands, but they are wellsprings of reasonable illusions. Rejecting the political babble around us in election campaigns and on mass media, these gatherings are an experiment in a different kind of public dialogue about our common life, one that can reject the forces of terror deployed by concentrated wealth and power.

With that understanding, the central task is to keep the experiment going, to remember the latent power in people who do not accept the legitimacy of a system.

Robert Jensen is a professor at the School of Journalism at the University of Texas, Austin.

Christians believe in hope

Christians believe in hope, and believe that the hungry should be fed, the outcasts should be cared for. There is much about our hope that is reflected in the appearance of this makeshift camp outside the grandeur of Wren's cathedral. I don't advocate closing its doors because I want to see a church that respects the past, celebrates the diversity of our city, but is not afraid to break out of the status quo and ask serious questions about how we all might do this better. Hopefully, rather than violently removing those protesters, we can work with them to see how this movement might grow, to the benefit of all of us, including the future of St Paul's.

Comments by Alan Green

Reverend Prebendary Alan Green is area dean of Tower Hamlets and rector, St John on Bethnal Green

The occupy movement is a glimmer of hope in a time when hope is in very short supply.

All Christians should think about their belief and ask where would Jesus be in this time of change.

Conservatives are realists? The world cannot be fixed

Those on the Left agree with my Anglican minister about the world and moreover believe it can be fixed; albeit without divine help. Conservatives whether religious or not, while equally disgruntled as individuals, are much less prone to believe in the remedial power of collective human endeavour. Conservatives are more accepting of the fates than are those on the Left. Those on the Left are optimists, in the original sense of the word. Conservatives are realists.

Peter Smith (Quadrant Online), commenting on the Occupy movement, is correct to point out that the left are optimists and Conservatives are realists.

Conservatives have no faith in collective human endeavour and believe it is best to do nothing; we should just accept our fate.

Even if that fate may have catastrophic effects on our way of life.

No wonder the Occupy movement has such support: it is human endeavour that has created the world that we live in and it is human endeavour that will have to fix the problems that we have created.

We can choose to continue without change, continue allowing the greedy to to rule.

Or we can look for alternatives that may enable all 7 billion of us to live in a peaceful and sustainable way.

I am an optimist and I believe in human endeavour.

The conservative idea is to do nothing, they say we should leave our future to fate. This will led us to a certain future of death and destruction that is their reality.

No wonder the optimists are screaming for a change of direction and believe humans can do better.

I am not sure where the Occupy movement will take us but we certainly need to change and any cause that is encouraging change is worth listening to.

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