Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

An important lesson from the Hicks saga is that Australia fails in a primary duty - protecting its citizens.Hicks was even moved to try and claim British citizenship, since the UK does a much better job.

The same pattern is unfolding with  Assange. Our governments comments embarrass it (and thus all Australians) on several fronts. Firstly, it tends to add weight to comments in the leaked documents that paint Australia as a relatively powerless nation that can be relied on as a US lackey (without having to give much back in return). Secondly, our Prime Minister is mimicking their Secretary of State's attack on Assange, even though their President is quite silent. Of course Clinton needs to attack, after all, her instructions to obtain passwords and encryption keys may well be criminal acts. But how do the leaks damage Australia (so far)? At best that Australia needs to be careful allowing spy stations on our soil. The papers are a valuable reminder to the public of the reality of politics. Thirdly, Assange's actions are exactly what an open, democratic society is about. Over time it will be realised that he is a citizen we should be proud of.

In this  interview with Time, he comes across as both extremely intelligent and principled. This  article by Joe Klein is quite amusing.

The Shin Bet can't win of course no matter what it does. Recent reports that there had been low level contact between it and Hamas and IJ in Jenin attracted complaints from the PA.

I must say I'm inclined to agree with the PA, if the reports are true. I can't see any point to these meetings either. Still, it's none of my business and, besides, who knows what is going on?

I thought red herrings were a special favourite of yours, Justin. Certainly you never went past one in your former life as an albatross.

My point you missed I think is how "fascinating" it is there are so many people who obsess about events happening on the other side of the world and yet from whom you never hear a peep about things that are far worse going on in their own backyards. This is beyond hypocrisy. There is something very ugly going on here. Look at Marilyn's comments for example. This is someone who has said repeatedly, here and elsewhere, that Israel has no legal right to exist (among other things that are even more repugnant). And yet she is able to turn the fact that Israel has a strong and independent judiciary, the match of any in the world, into reason to condemn Israel. People of the "left" who not only tolerate this stuff, but regard the proponents of it as on the same side of politics as themselves, have to accept that there is something fundamentally unhealthy about the modern "left" and that it is in the grip of  a moral crisis that disqualifies it from being taken seriously any time soon.

Reform yourselves. Otherwise the modern "left" has nothing to contribute. Indeed you are a large part of the problem.

Having said that, it is I guess easy to believe that individuals who have been charged with the protection of Israel's internal security may have at times mistreated people in their custody who are responsible for this sort of thing, by slapping or kicking them. Here's just one charming little incident from about the same time as the Israeli rights group you linked made its slapping and kicking complaint. I know that if I was in the shoes of the Shin Bet people I would be sorely tempted to do a little slapping and kicking of my own.

However, I am reliably informed that generally speaking Shin Bet and other Israeli security agencies are too disciplined to indulge in this, partly because these methods are of limited value. They use far more sophisticated interrogation techniques that are much more likely to work. 

I have now finished Hicks well written and researched book.

His conviction was made null and void last August, seems no-one in Australia bothered to report that minor detail.

If his conviction was null and void because the process breached the US consitution there is no point in continuing to harrass the man.

However, I feel proud today that I was on the right side of law and justice when I signed petitions, went to rallies (at the first one way back in 2002 we could fit in one phone box), researched the history of Afghanistan and what possible crime Hicks could have committed by simply being on the same side as the US at the time.

Actually at the time he was in Afghanistan if he was with the so-called Northern Alliance he would have been committing some crime that the US have yet to identify.

His treatment and that of Habib plus their ongoing persecution here is a blot on our history books and those who left him to rot should be the ones on trial.

 

As for Israel, Geoff, take your hand off it old son.   The Israelis' gleefully torture and reject even their own supreme court that found it unlawful.

Oh Geoff, it would appear that you, like dear Alan,  just love to go a hunting; so how about this from another nutcase pro-terrorist Islamic site:

From Haaretz:

A report released yesterday by the Public Committee Against Torture claims that the use of torture in the interrogation of Palestinian suspects has increased significantly over the past two years.

You will note that the Public Committee Against Torture is an Israeli mob just like Haaretz and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions .

You know, there are many Jewish people I'd love to hug, and if I were a big fat polar bear then you know what I'd be doing to you right now.

  

Short answer to Marilyn Shepherd, 9/11:  Australia.

 We imported Maoris because they were willing to use wide shearing combs, unlike Aussie shearers.

 When they got paid, they went to Sydney to watch the Rugby, got pissed on our beer ( which is stronger than Kiwi beer, hence a man's beer)  and got busted for brawling with equally drunk Aussie fans; hence to jail. 

True.

So the Maoris were taken from their own country of New Zealand, kidnapped and jailed in another country without charge or trial were they?

Which country, how many and how often.

The more deluded climate deniers are, the more certain they seem about their information.  I see it every day.  But it’s not limited to the climate denier community. We have a larger problem – the cancerous growth of a self reinforcing, right wing echo chamber mediathat has no anchor in reality, and no rationale other than political expediency in deciding which rumors, factoids, falsehoods and conspiracy theories it spreads.

No wonder people are throwing shoes to gain attention. The right wing are quickly losing the plot and taking many with them.

New Zealand's 2006 National Census reported that 565,329 people belonged to the Maori ethnic group. About 4000 are in jail. There are about 4,000,000 Palestinians.

This means that on Marilyn's figures, a NZ Maori is about four times more likely to be in a Kiwi jail than a Palestinian in an Israeli jail. A good thing there isn't a war on.

I haven't even got around to the Kooris yet. 

11,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons? You say that as if it's a bad thing.

 Ursus maritimus is of course a beautiful and powerful beast; we wombats find them really cool.

Homo sapien observers should note that Marilyn and Maritimus do have their similarities, obviously this was not lost on Alan, and for good reason.

 "Alan was excited about his new rifle and decided to try bear hunting.

He traveled up to Alaska, spotted a small brown bear and shot it.

Soon after there was a tap on his shoulder, and he turned around to see a big black bear. The black bear said, “That was a very bad mistake. That was my cousin. I’m going to give you two choices. Either I maul you to death or we have sex.”

After considering briefly, Alan decided to accept the latter alternative. So the black bear had his way with Alan.

Even though he felt sore for two weeks, Alan soon recovered and vowed revenge. He headed out on another trip to Alaska where he found the black bear and shot it dead.

Right after, there was another tap on his shoulder. This time a huge grizzly bear stood right next to him. The grizzly said, “That was a big mistake, Alan. That was my cousin and you’ve got two choices: Either I maul you to death or we have rough sex.”

Again, Alan thought it was better to cooperate with the grizzly bear than be mauled to death. So the grizzly had his way with Alan.

Although he survived, it took several months before Alan fully recovered.

Now Alan was completely outraged, so he headed back to Alaska and managed to track down the grizzly bear and shot it.

He felt sweet revenge, but then, moments later, there was a tap on his shoulder.

He turned around to find a giant polar bear standing there.

The polar bear looked at him and said, “Admit it Alan, you don’t come here for the hunting, do you?”

 Alan: I don't know what pink bats has to do with conspiring with tyrants; if I were still an albatross I would gobble that one up quick smart, thank you very much.

But seeing that you brought it up one would expect that, in regards to the pink bat thing, the blame for the mistakes should be considered in relation to corporate law, and a company's compliance  responsibilities.

I still have videos of pink bats being installed next door by a bunch of cowboys. - it's a sad illustration of poor training and recklessness.

As I see it the responsibility lays with those companies that installed the pink bats to follow the rules etc. It is their responsibility under the law of the land.

Why blame the government that gave many small businesses an opportunity to make some cash? Why not blame those who actually stuffed up: grubby small business people who have no respect for the health or welfare of their employees and clients.

Blame the government if it makes you feel better, but at the end of the day the legal responsibility lies with the companies that did the work.

Finally, how about this one: kids overboard JWH murdered something like 1.5 billion dollars (The Pacific Solution) just to show the racists amongst us he (that gutless pathogen) could be tough with refugees. And after spending all that cash most of the refugees were well, refugees, and ended up here anyway.

Now Alan, you tell me, what did we get for our 1.5 billion? 

At least Labor's intentions were honourable (although naive) and were intended to be a benefit to all Australians, while the Coalition's intentions were cynical and destructive - QED

And we won't bring up those tanks that we bought from the yanks; best keep that one for another time hey mate.

Now wander of old chap and munch on them reds.

Hear Hear! What the big leaping rat said. Do you have any idea what that terrorist loving arsehole used to do to amuse himself while he was hanging around by his ankles?

-Mickey and Minnie

 David Hicks is small potatoes; so what if he fired bullets over an horizon - go for a drive along our country roads and you'll see bullet holes in just about every road sign from Bourke to Ceduna; boys and guns have never been a good mix.

But as they say David Hicks gave comfort to an enemy (although at the time they weren't our enemy per se) and he must be punished - even if he broke no laws.

Not so the Australian Wheat Board, no cages, no jump suits, no torture, just a whole lot of cash for Saddam and who gives a shit about the law, and when it all came unstuck then they had a cover up - like the pathetic pathogens they are.

David Hicks as a young bloke had problems, got into trouble and found it hard to make friends, as some young blokes do; he was also a romantic and made choices that he obviously regrets - as romantics do.

The AWB and our pollies are no such things - they intentionally conspired to break the law (for profit) and by doing so assisted our enemy - when they got caught out they simply behaved like the pathogens they are by setting up an inquiry that was designed to not get to the truth.

If David Hicks deserved 5 years in gaol for committing no crime except giving the enemy his moral support then what do the likes of Howard, Downer and the lads at the AWB deserve for breaking the law and paying off a tyrant.

David Hicks could be accused of many things but here in wombat world he doesn't rate as being anywhere as near as dangerous as the aforementioned pathogens - just ask the good people of Iraq.

 

I generally like to criticise the press for being shoddy journalists, but I found both this and the SBS program on the NBN excellent journalism.

No, really must challenge Jay Somasundaram's view on Hicks.

 The bloke originally got involved thru his opposition to the Balkans bloodbaths of the nineties- he didn't stand back and watch, like the UN soldiers supposedly guarding the victims of Srebrenica before the Serb militias took them away ,without resistance, to their deaths. He saw tyranny and in a stroke of youthful idealism decided to join the resistance.

And so to Afghanistan.

 So his motives, trashed in dismissal as no better than being a wicked urge to take "potshots at the big boys", lands him trouble when he is miles away from the nearest fighting. He is turned in, because he's a westerner and much more interesting for the yanks as a likely exemplar for what happens to white dissenters opposing the grubby realities of US policy.

 Have all the yank soldiers in Afghanistan been put in jail, under appalling conditions, for "taking potshots" at the Afghani people?

Why then should Hicks have been treated the way he was, for his symbolic opposing of western thinking on neocolonialism?

Jay, we are no more the "good" guys in Afghanistan than we were in Iraq- your take goes against the last decade of history, as well as a concern for fair play.

Yeah, you're both right. I spoke too soon. I just saw the said shoe throwing incident on a You-Tube video. The particular mindless deadbeat in question threw his shoes as if his arms were already broken. He made Hicks look like he was a real man. No point in getting out of the chair really ...

Hold on folks. Hicks made a concious decision to play with guns, and take pot shots at the big boys. The groups he joined and trained with were not nice people.

Lets not group Hicks with those who were minding their own business and got steam-rollered. 

Hicks should thank his God that he is still alive and safe back in Australia rather than rotting in an Asian cell.