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Israel and the Freedom Flotilla

Many people will say that Israel's attack on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla was an act of self-defence, a prevention of supplies reaching those who would attack it.  Maybe the Israelis merely intended to commandeer the leading Turkish vessel, but something has gone terribly wrong.  The result has been Israeli Navy Seals firing guns at a boatload of civilians who defended themselves against the boarding party.

Depending on which reports you believe, the number of dead killed by the Israelis numbers between eight and fourteen, and many more wounded.  The deaths have been condemned around the world  The European Union has condemned the attack, and an emergency session of the UN Security Council is now debating a response.

Whatever your opinion, it's obvious that Israel is much less kindly regarded today than yesterday.  No doubt, over the next few days, we're going to hear of many calls for revenge.  I hope we don't hear reports of acts of retribution, but am afraid that the IDF's actions yesterday are going to be the catalyst for new levels of bloodshed in the Middle East.  

Let's hope that the will for peace is strong enough to overcome this fiasco.  I worry that it won't , and that much more blood is about to be spilled. 

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As the pendulum swings

A factual eye witness report from Lt. Col. Gregson who was in charge of the operation:

"It is a very frightening thing to go into the hold full of yelling maniacs when outnumbered six or eight to one." Describing the assault, the officer wrote to his superiors: "After a very short pause, with a lot of yelling and female screams, every available weapon up to a biscuit and bulks of timber was hurled at the soldiers. They withstood it admirably and very stoically till the activists assaulted and in the first rush several soldiers were downed with half a dozen activists on top kicking and tearing ... No other troops could have done it as well and as humanely as these IDF did." He concluded: "It should be borne in mind that the guiding factor in most of the actions of the activists is to gain the sympathy of the world press."

Well, factual if  we replaced "activist" with "jew" and "IDF" with "British ones" and of course the ship was the SS Exodus chock a block full of refugees who desperately needed somewhere to live.

Out come the shills

It was an illegal war crime committed by Israel, not an if or a but about it.

I do wish those who continually support  Israel would stop blindly supporting whatever they do.

As for McGeough being an idiot : He was shot at by Israel after the attack on Jenin, he has been abused by them before and now he is jailed and Kate has been tasered in the middle of the night by armed frigging morons in a planned attack.

Stop saying "imagine" if some other country did blah, blah, blah - Israel committed a crime- to try and defend is a greater crime.

I'm lost

Once we acknowledge it is a war, Marilyn, How is it a crime? Surely a country at war has the right to destroy supply ships to the enemy?

Friggin morons

 Marilyn,:"I do wish you would stop continually supporting the Hamas terrorists, whatever happens to these friggin morons is their own fault."

McGeough is an idiot for thinking that he was just going to walk ashore whilst the Israelis watched, So he has been shot at and abused before and he still comes back for more, I would say this was a sign of an idiot. He could spend his time more wisely covering a Flower Show in Dublin.

So Kate was tasered, idiots and criminals usually get tasered and I think this is what happened in this case. I do hope her Box Brownie was not damaged.

There is another boat on the way to Gaza packed with Palestinian activists, I hope they start hitting the Israeli soldiers with iron bars again, and that they film it properly this time.

It's funny how these friendly Palestinians cruisers managed to find the iron bars without the ships Security Officers found out.

 

Friggin morons - what about these guys?

Hey Alan, speaking of friggin morons what do you reckon about these guys?

The Israeli army is at the centre of a second controversy over the moral conduct of its soldiers in as many days.

It will sort of help you understand the definition of friggin moron. And they give guns to see guys.

So what ya reckon Alan, would you be proud for one of your own to be a part of that? 

It would appear the good Dr Meyer is close to the truth:

"...Israel is dehumanising itself through its treatment of Palestinians, and this will be its downfall.”

One shot two kills

Sorry guys but that's the link - I've seen a lot of sick stuff in my life but this would have to be the worst. Sort of makes you realise that war and violence can turn normal lads into psychopaths.

Now who are the morons Alan?

Maybe we all are.

 

 

Tee-shirts

Justin , Whats the big deal with the tee-shirts.

You should see some of the shit that the Palestinians wear.

Alan - would be caught alive or dead in one?

Alan, would you like to provide examples of the Palestinian shit?

It's said that the IDF claims to be the most "moral" army in the world. Does promoting the execution of innocent pregnant women, as depicted on the IDF tee-shirt, support such a claim? Hamas makes no such claim.

and

Does this indicticate a more sinister and perverted culture within the IDF in general than we are led to believe?

and

Alan, you give me the impression you feel OK with those images, do you?  - would you wear one yourself in public?

Would you give one to your children for Xmas?

Who for Christ's sake do you think would want and wear one?

I would be interested in your comments.

The sweet scent of democracy

In that Hamas was democratically elected, how do we differentiate between legitimate armies and terrorists? Both use violence and fear for political ends.

A sad stuff-up, hopefully not at a sadder cost

I've started thinking that this situation was never meant to happen, a heat-of-the-moment flash of action that shouldn't merit the devastating consequences that could ensue.

I can happily believe that the IDF's only intentions were to commandeer craft that were about to disempower something considered a necessary military strategy.   Like Langdon on Afghanistan, I reckon these folk have let panid rule their trigger--fingers.  When I pidture paramilitary coming down on a boatload of activvists, I wonder how paramilitary could train for this. and doubt it's in the Manual.  Even if it is, how could any training replicate the emotional surges (on both sides) of the real thing?

As a random fuck-up, it shouldn't be the catalyst to hundreds, maybe thousands, of deaths.  If the supposed world community doesn't handle this situation maturely, too many lives will end. 

Stop it

It was a stuff up but it was well planned in advance.

 They didn't accidently murder people, it was planned in advance as we are now discovering.

 How dare you think always that Israel merely stuffs up when they murder people in cold blood/

Not a stuff-up

 Richard , I disagree with you when you say " this situation was never meant to happen" it was exactly what the "peaceful" Palestinian activists wanted.

The fact that the loss of life occured would have made Hamas happy, as it drew attention to their cause.

How many cruise ships in the Med supply their passengers with iron bars?.

Why didn't the Mavi Marmara stop when requested?.

Perhaps the IDF scrambling down ropes was the nightly entertainment on board SS Hamas.

I suppose the one good thing to come out of it was that 3 Turkish Muslims became martyrs which was apparently what they wanted according to their families.

No more paintball guns.

It has now become much clearer what happened. It is not at all surprising that my worst fears have proved correct. This was to be expected, but it is a terrible calamity nevertheless.

We are watching a blood libel in the making. Nothing unites so many different groups around the world than a good old fashioned mass hate rant denying  Israelis (and by implication Jews) have the right to defend themselves. It is only a matter of time before this global paper pogram, aimed at lynching Israel as surely as the Islamist thugs on board the terrorist supply boats tried to lynch the Israeli commandos, takes on a viciously murderous life of its own.

Israel has to recognise that the useful idiots, such as that blithering mongrel McGeough, who packed the terrorist supply vessels to the rails, are far more sinister than even they appear. They have provided cover for Hamas in a calculated and clever campaign to break the military blockade of Gaza so that Hamas, like Hezbollah in the north, can be resupplied with as many weapons as they need, including Iranian missiles.

Let's be absolutely clear about what is going on. Iran and Hamas want to murder as many Jews, anywhere, as they can get their hands on. They are quite open about this. They say so at every opportunity and they try it on every chance they get. They want to do this because they are Islamist nazis. People like McGeough want to help.

For people like me, it is also very clear that this is not a time for talk. There is nothing for it but to keep our heads down and wait for the mindless hateful rage in the streets outside to pass. We know from experience that the ugly mob will run out of spit and blood lust sooner or later. They are not too bright and although very dangerous have a short attention span. In the meantime it is a matter of keeping the guns and ammunition clean, dry and ready. We can take comfort in the knowledge that the IDF will do its duty. You can be sure that this is the last time Israelis will attempt to seize vessels manned by Islamist nazis and their sympathisers while armed primarily with toy guns. 

What's in a name?

>> denying  Israelis (and by implication Jews) have the right to defend themselves.

Aren't the refugees in the Gaza Strip also Israelis, Geoff? There are some nasty names for states that systematically eradicate certain sections of their own population.

Missed by that much - again

Geoff: "My early call is that the Israelis walked into a carefully planned ambush. Israeli intelligence was aware that this so called "aid" convoy was organised primarily by a Turkish extremist Islamist group with a history of violence and strong connections with Hamas, but they underestimated the extent and determination of the threat on the water."

That argument is contradictory. If Israeli intelligence was aware the flotilla was organised by such violent types why would they allow the IDF to engage in such a delicate operation where (on the water) the commandos would be most vulnerable?

It obviously escaped those "intelligent" types that violent people  may feel inclined to defend themselves when attacked on the high seas. I'm sure they would be legally entitled to do just that. Underestimating the enemy  when "intelligence" already knew the enemy was a pretty Maxwell Smart thing to do, don't you think?

Looks like Max and the Chief are losing friends fast; maybe they should try a new line of business - comedy would be excellent but anything to do with passports not so.

For those who think this latest episode was a bit over the top then consider what the IDF can do to their very best friends:

"After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded.   The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap."


Once again Max claimed he "missed by that much" and mistook the easily identifiable Yank ship for a wog boat a quarter of its size. The victims were compensated with cash - I'm not sure what dead people can do with cash.

It makes one wonder, if Geoff reckons Paul McGeough is an idiot then I wonder how he would describe dear old Max?

No need to offer suggestions - the rest of the world is already doing that.

Well done Max.

Who shot Liberty?

Oh dear, Justin. Not the USS Liberty again. Of course the Israelis attacked the Liberty. They had to. It was a preemptive strike. The boat was caught red handed about to bomb the King David Hotel.

Was the holocaust pre-emptive?

The people responsible for attacking the USS Liberty were morons. The families of the 34 servicemen slaughtered for reasons only known to the few have been left scratching their heads ever since.

To the families of the dead and wounded such an event (just like the holocaust) will never be forgotten - it was no f*cking accident.

I'm sure if anybody dismissed the holocaust in such a fashion they would be considered callous and ignorant.

Unfortunately for Israel the world is paying attention to God's chosen people, and what we see are a bunch of spoilt brats who have been milking the holocaust for all its worth for far too long now.

Not so long ago I watched a Jewish settler  interviewed on 60 Minutes. When asked why she was building a home on land that did not belong to her she replied with words to the effect: where do you expect me to live, a concentration camp?

Pretty well sums up the mind set of many a greedy settler. A bullshit appeal to sympathy as an excuse to steal other peoples stuff. Their behaviour (and childish rationalisation for same) not only betrays the memory of their families but exposes them as the people they really are - bludgers, along for a free ride.

It appears those who have known real suffering are a bit more humane than the bludgers:

“The Misuse of the Holocaust for Political Purposes”

 Dr. Meyer, who 65 years ago survived ten months in the Auschwitz Nazi death camp, then spoke to the rapt crowd.

Dr. Meyer further went on to say that the lesson modern Zionism wants people to learn from the Holocaust is that “we Jews have a monopoly on suffering. Therefore, whatever we do to the Palestinians – or anyone else – however horrible, is less that what we suffered” and therefore excusable.

Dr. Meyer continued by saying that “Israel has not the slightest wish to make peace – to Israel peace is an entirely ambivalent term, its means only the peace and freedom to continue carrying out its crimes against the Palestinian people”, and as such, he fully supported the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign against Israel as a progressive non-violent method of international resistance to Israeli crimes.

Dr. Meyer concluded by making clear that “Israelis should not be dehumanised. However, Israel is dehumanising itself through its treatment of Palestinians, and this will be its downfall.”

I suppose Dr Meyer would be called a self hating Jew by the morons running the show at present - that would make him a decent sort of bloke in my books, the world needs more like him. 

A case in point.

Sigh. Alright. Here we go again.

Justin, the allegation that the attack on Liberty was deliberate (or, alternatively was a false flag operation, as has been alleged here) is the work of nutcase conspiracy theorists.

Do you remember the USS Liberty?

 I do. Clearly. Even though it is over forty years ago now.

It was big news at the time and has reared its ugly head every few years since.  It most certainly was not a "false flag" operation of course. Only the Israelis were flying Mirages.  Egypt and Syria no longer had airforces and it was the fourth day of a six day war that had already been effectively won anyway. The Israelis offered assistance immediately after the attack.

There are some Americans who have never accepted that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, led by Dean Rusk and fuelled by some (understandably) bitter survivors of the attack.  The Israelis have always maintained that they did not know they were attacking a "neutral" vessel. I once read a detailed Israeli account of the attack and the "accident" claim seemed pretty compelling to me. I have never understood how anyone could seriously argue that the Israelis would deliberately attack an US naval vessel. Why? The theories advanced do not sound at all likely. In fact to my ear they sound like the mutterings of the unhinged.

When I read American sourced accounts claiming the Liberty was deliberately attacked I always have the same thought. The Americans have never had a "friendly fire" incident in a war zone? 

Justin, your comments about the Holocaust are untrue and deeply offensive. 

Double standards ...

Imagine for a moment these troops were Aussies attempting to board a boat while enforcing, say, an UN blockade in the Gulf of Saddam's Iraq. At what point would you expect them to use their weapons to defend their lives? Would you be prepared at least to wait for the results of a formal investigation before condemning them as murderers?

Man overboard.

I read somewhere that some of the IDF commandos jumped overboard - seemed like a pretty smart thing to do. Poor old Max couldn't do that - silly bastard can't swim.

 

 

Hamas overboard

Justin , If these Pro-Palestian activists insist on taking cruises with Hamas they had better be able to swim.

Anyway Justin don't worry about it all, Israel will deal with these idiots in the only way Hamas understands.

I wonder why the Muslim world have not been complaining about Muslims killing Muslims by the dozens the last couple of weeks.

Yet again ...

"The result has been Israeli Navy Seals firing guns at a boatload of civilians who defended themselves against the boarding party."

Actually Richard, what exactly happened is of course unknown right now, (there is yet the small matter of an investigation or ten) but the first indications are that it was nothing like that at all. The official clips I have seen look to me to be consistent with the Israeli claims that their elite troops, acting under orders to ignore provocations and avoid violence, were set upon by knots of thugs prepared with lethal weapons including iron bars and knives and who were bent on bashing the brains out of as many as they could.

The most interesting thing yet again is how many people are so quick to reach a position on what happened without actually bothering to wait for the facts. Not even that idiot, Paul McGeough's version of the facts.

Here are some pretty certain facts however. Israel will be condemned to hell no matter what happened. For most people now shrilly denouncing Israel, the facts are not much relevant.  Indeed they are a bloody nuisance. That is why this is such an enormous victory for Hamas in particular and Islamist power and terrorism generally. As such, this is an enormous set back for the cause of peace and the decent aspirations of all in the region including naturally the Palestinians.  As it most likely was intended to be.

My early call is that the Israelis walked into a carefully planned ambush. Israeli intelligence was aware that this so called "aid" convoy was organised primarily by a Turkish extremist Islamist group with a history of violence and strong connections with Hamas, but they underestimated the extent and determination of the threat on the water. They thought they could snatch control of the boats from a resisting but unarmed, or at least unorganised group in a quick and bloodless coup.  They were wrong.  Badly wrong and that part of the world is a more dangerous place this morning for it.

So that's how I see it at this stage. One up for the bad guys. But I will wait for the facts before reaching a clearer view.

Freedom flotilla- I think not

Let’s get some things right about this story, the convoy of six ships was led by a Turkish vessel with 600 people on board and set sail for Gaza from international waters off Cyprus on Sunday in defiance of an Israeli-led blockade of the territory.

The 600 people were Pro-Palestinian activists out to provoke the Israelis, if they did not know that the Israelis were going to stop them then they are dumber than I thought.

Journalist Paul McGeogh and photographer Kate Geraghty certainly knew what they were going into, and it obviously does not bother them that there could be a loss of life as long as they get their story, these two idiots have as much regard for human life as does Hamas.

 Herald editor Peter Fray said "We are obviously very eager to make contact with Paul and Kate, who entered Israel as working journalists to do a legitimate job”.

People normally enter Israel legitimately by air or normal shipping routes, not by Hamas sponsored flotillas.

Geraghty and McGeough are in an Israeli detention facility at Ashdod.

I have entered Israel many times and have never been put in an Israeli detention facility, perhaps because I entered the country legally.

Why didn’t the ships dock at an Israeli port as requested so that the ships could be searched for arms?. If they were truly carrying humanitarian supplies they had nothing to fear, the problem of course is that Hamas consider rockets as humanitarian supplies.

Yet again...

'Its more than just blood being shed, its the finally repudiation of Likudist Israel, of any notion and application of a just solution to the region's problems, except on terms that answer solely its own self obsessions. The Israel of Kibbutzim and a social vison is replaced by the sight of a corrupt political class riding the wave of support of religious fantasist blocs and big buiness money.

It remains the Siamese  twin of the US, a sort of huge, massively financed armed fortress to defend the US's interests in the region, but in turn able to demand of US such a price in its complicity with the oppression of the Arabs, as to destry any pretence it has of being an honest broker in regional disputes.

 The tail wags the dog, the US no longer has respect throughout the world, for its double standard when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians.

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