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More refugees because Australia is a "soft touch” – or because more civilians are under threat?

More refugees because Australia is a "soft touch” – or because more civilians are under threat?
by John Pratt

As the political debate heats up over who is to blame for the increase in the number of Afghan refugees, Malcolm “Returnbill” is pointing his finger at the “softening” by the Rudd government of Australia’s immigration policy. The reality – as the Human Rights Unit of the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan points out in a new report – is that the increasing civilian death toll in Afghanistan (and other places) is more likely to be the cause of the increase in refugee numbers than changes to Australia's immigration laws.

The 2008 civilian death toll is thus the highest of any year since the end of major hostilities which resulted in the demise of the Taliban regime at the end of 2001,” says the Mission. “This disquieting pattern demands that the parties to the conflict take all necessary measures to avoid the killing of civilians.”

According to the report, the majority of the casualties, some 41 per cent, occurred in the country’s volatile southern region, which saw heavy fighting in several provinces.

The 1,160 civilians killed by anti-government elements represent an increase of 65 per cent over 2007 figures. The vast majority – 85 per cent – of them died as a result of suicide and improvised explosive devises.

Meanwhile, air-strikes were responsible for the largest percentage, some 64 per cent, of civilian deaths attributed to pro-government forces last year, with night-time raids, which sometimes result in death and injury to civilians, a continuing concern, according to the report.

The policy of returning Afghan refugees to the war zone is also causing the refugees to look further afield.

Pakistan recently began closing its largest camp for Afghan refugees out of fear that remnants of the Taliban had been using it as a hideout. Now, more than 70,000 Afghans are being uprooted once more. Many are making the dangerous journey back to their homeland. From war widows and teenagers to young families, they are on the move; hoping to rebuild their lives in a country many have not seen for decades. Mandy Clark recently visited the Afghan-Pakistan border, where she met with several refugees and followed them back to the Afghan capital, Kabul.

It is disgusting to see Australian politicians try to make political capital out of the misery suffered by those unfortunate to be caught up in the Afghanistan war, a war that is supported by both major political parties.

The policy that has contributed most to the sudden influx of Afghan refugees is the policy to make war on Afghanistan.

We should be opening the doors to these refugees. As in Vietnam, we have caused the problem. It is our responsibility to make sure we find homes for the families displaced by our actions.

A new United Nations report finds that in the past year the number of refugees worldwide has increased from 9 to 11 million. Khalid Koser, deputy director of the Brookings-Bern Project on Internal Displacement, discusses the causes behind this increase as well as possible implications if the number of refugees continues to climb. Koser says the primary reasons for the increase are the continued presence of Afghan refugees plus new Iraqi refugees who have fled to Jordan and Syria. Without durable solutions, these refugee situations can become protracted, which has significant security implications for the host countries and their regions.

The refugees are desperate and are risking their lives to make the extremely dangerous journey to safety. No wonder that, when they think they may be towed back to Indonesia, they try to disable their boats. The resulting disaster is a result of our actions to make war on their countries.

What would we do if Australia was invaded and our towns and cities were destroyed? If our women and children we continually threatened by air strikes? Would we be looking for safer countries to live in? You bet we would.

Come on Australia – have a heart and accept the consequences of our actions.

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720,000 Afghan refugees forced out of Iran

Herat: The more than 1,000 children deported from Iran to Afghanistan’s western province of Herat in 2008 face poverty and are at risk of abuse, according to the UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF) and provincial authorities

more than 1,000 children deported from Iran to Afghanistan.
An Afghan boy deported from Iran shows his refugee identity card. (IRIN Photo)

Most of the deported teenagers were working as economic migrants in the neighbouring oil-rich country where they are considered “illegal intruders” and qualify for forced expulsion.

Iran has expelled over 720,000 Afghansin the past two years, according to the Afghan Ministry of Refugees and Returnees Affairs (MoRRA).

Tehran has said it will deport all Afghans who live in Iran unlawfully. MoRRA officials estimate that hundreds of thousands of Afghans still live in Iran with no valid residence and/or work permits.

“Every day about 20 children are deported to Herat,” Abdul Qader Rahimi, head of the government human rights commission’s office in Herat Province, told IRIN, adding that some are deported to Nemroz Province, which borders Iran’s Zabol Province.

I am sure the unfortunate refugees read up on Australian immigration laws before they make the hazardous journey.

What do you think has the most effect on numbers coming to Australia?

Could it be our laws, or might it just be the numbers being thrown out of Iran?

A soft touch

Marilyn Shepherd: "There is no way they want to end up in it by sabotaging anything.

The question is why were they refuelling a boat when they should have been on the Albany at least 20 hours earlier and on their way to Christmas Island.

Those who demonised that group of Afghans should be ashamed of themselves."

These people are ideologists, so can't be trusted. As pointed out, the boat was powered by a diesel engine. The petrol would've been used to power their cooking stove, the same type using mentholated spirits, they use petrol as it's cheaper, easier to obtain and commonly used for decades in Asia. You'd think people would be familiar with the subject they support, but it's their ego, not the reality which drives them.

These supposed refugee's, have lied and bribed their way to Australia. Many of them have been in other culturally compatible countries with no adverse outcomes for years, all could have stayed in those countries and made their lives easily. They demonise themselves by their actions, no one forces these misfits to come here, no one forces them to protest against their treatment, which is better than they'd receive in their own ideological compatible countries. Yet we are expected to accept these wankers who try to hold us to ransom. They come here because they know they can get everything for free and never have to work again, whilst forcing their cultural and ideological ideals onto our country.

It's admirable to support the oppressed, maybe it should start with the majority of indigenous and average Australian, who are oppressed by politically correct and ideological vested interest wankers.

This country is about us, a combination of indigenous and forced settlers. Our ancestors kept this country together and in balance for more than 50000 years, the politically correct and emotional ideological distraught, want to stuff it as quickly as possible. We don't want it flooded by more idiots, there's enough here already trying to make Australia like the rest of the ideological world, stuffed.

Well, Alga

As almost all the last lot you claim bribed their way into Australia are now citizens doesn't that give you some vague clue that you are talking utter bullshit?

 

 

For some strange reason people are fleeing Afghanistan

Alga: "These supposed refugee's, have lied and bribed their way to Australia. Many of them have been in other culturally compatible countries with no adverse outcomes for years,"

Here is an example of "supposed refugees":

Ten Afghan citizens being detained in Pekanbaru for illegally entering Indonesia hope to meet representatives from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) in Jakarta in a bid to seek asylum.

"Every time the gate opens we hope to meet people from UNHCR. If you have friends at the UNHCR office in Jakarta, please tell them about our conditions here," Chaman Ali, one of the Afghan refugees at an immigration center, told The Jakarta Post on Wednesday.

Besides Chaman, 29, the other refugees were identified as Jamal Murtaza, 28, Sajjad Husain 26, Abuzar, 23, Sultan, 28, Kharimi M Husain, 55, Ahmad Shaa , 26, Abdul Qayum, 50, Shukur Allah, 25, and Abdul Karim, 43.

Chaman said he and his friends had to leave Afghanistan to avoid being killed by anti-government Taliban fighters.

"My mother told me to escape after my three brothers were killed by the Taliban. I was considered a traitor after working as a UNHCR volunteer in Kabul," the resident of Nawooy district, Ghazni province, said.

Helped by an agent who asked for payments between US$2,000 and $3,000, the Afghans fled in a plane to several countries in the Arabian peninsula before landing in Malaysia, Chaman said.

He said the agent suggested the Afghans go to the UNHCR office in Jakarta because the Kuala Lumpur branch was considered unresponsive. "I don't know the agent. There are so many agents in Kabul. We just believed them because they managed to help people out of Afghanistan."

Have a heart – most of these people are legitimate refugees and they need our support, not our abuse. Just for a day try to walk in their shoes.

Two sides to the story

Government sources told the ABC that fuel was deliberately poured on the deck as a threat after the Navy intercepted the boat, because those on board feared they would be turned back to Indonesia.

But the head of the Afghan community in Western Australia, Farad Popal, says some of the survivors now in immigration detention say it was an accident.

"Their understanding is that it was during the time of the refuelling, when they were refuelling, putting the fuel to the engine," he said.

It seems the explosion may have been an accident. That would make more sense. How many people do you know that would set fire to a boat just after they have been rescued?

Why are we so quick to jump to conclusions? Why do we distrust these people so much?

We have been caught out before and it looks like we may have been caught out again.

Afghans are terrified of the sea

There is no way they want to end up in it by sabotaging anything.

The question is why were they refuelling a boat when they should have been on the Albany at least 20 hours earlier and on their way to Christmas Island.

Those who demonised that group of Afghans should be ashamed of themselves.

A very good question from Marilyn

Marilyn: "The question is why were they refuelling a boat when they should have been on the Albany at least 20 hours earlier and on their way to Christmas Island."

Exactly. So why would they need to refuel the boat? Alongside the Albany? While under tow?

Marilyn: "Afghans are terrified of the sea."

Which explains the boat, I suppose.

The boat was diesel powered

The forensic evidence presented to the inquest could determine the truth of that. As you might recall, the boat was diesel powered. However, there's been some suggestion that the fire was caused by "petrol". Time will tell.

Well the refugees didn't buy the bloody petrol

Honest to god Eliot, you are just so anxious to blame a group of Afghans who knew they were safe.

The Indonesian fishermen provision the boats, the Afghans are just passengers who know as much about boats as I do having grown up in the Australian desert.

That would be diddly squat.

The blame game

Who said anything about blaming the Afghans?

I blame Kevin Rudd for misleading the refugees with his PR spin, and the people smugglers for either burning the boat deliberately or as a result of their carelessness..

Who do you blame? John Howard, I suppose.

bonfire of the vanities

Ah my, am sitting here not sure whether to laugh or cry. I think the second, judging by the ache in my sides.

Have just come from the Editorial page of the Australian no less, where a lull in the news cycle has caused the anonymous leader writers there to again succumb to the temptation of indulging in and then worse still, exercising their paranoia concerning the twin problems that usually occupy what passes for their minds; the boat people and Media Watch.

Most of you will recall this week's MW finished with an article questioning tabloid use of terminology to describe asylum seekers.

This has inspired a true bonfire; a veritable conflagration of words in what is some what pompously described as "Leader One", where we find ensconced atop, non other than our own beloved Marilyn.

This piece, entitled;

"Recycled platitudes make poor debate".

With a smaller, sulky heading underneath producing a true verity of a sentence:

"The left does not have a monopoly on conscience".

Launches a stodgy attack on the old enemy, Media Watch and several individuals amongst which, smack at the pivot, is located our Marilyn, who is spoken of in the following terms, as:

"Adelaide busybody Marilyn Shepherd...".

You must have them worried, love. As a mouse does an elephant. Regardless of the issue that started this, I laugh to scorn that a veritable press empire stands trembling in agitation at a little suburban mum from Adelaide. Truly.

Apparently she's been doing what she does to everyone else when these issues turn up and bombarding them with emails demanding a fair go for the boat people again.

If she succeeds in this, I'll smother her in kisses... next time - on any topic - will be the first time ever for that publication.

To think that a great power in the land, the mighty Oz, is so preoccupied with, and insecure of, itself that it must devote a tirade against a small and raggedy band of suburban dissenters employing the most precious print-space in the country for indulgence in petty cat-calling at those it imagines to be in dispute as to its hitherto-unquestioned viewpoints and prerogatives ( and denies the right to adequate responses from same, no doubt! ) at the very centre page of the newspaper, beggars belief.

A space supposedly reserved only for issues of the most grave import, is hijacked for petty score-settling and point scoring on a personal basis concerning a semantic dispute between these anonymous neurotics and members of the public who dare disagree with their pronouncements, offered from on-high, to be accepted without query.

No wonder adults are abandoning so-called newspapers for the internet.

The above illustrates why their credibility must be at rock bottom, as they seek to massage the reactionary remnants of their readership and shore up their own hypersensitive egos.

To reinforce the impression is a pathetic effort from the resident dominatrix, Albrechtsen, given its usual pride of place above and beyond anything of the remotest genuine news value.

Oh dear the poor old OZ

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25401857-16741,00.html

How completely ridiculous the OZ has become when they prefer to shoot the messengers rather than just correct a word in their language.

Ignorant fools probably think myself and others they have decided to trash are quaking in our boots instead of laughing our heads off at them.

Poor widdle diddums.

Security sans borders

Why thank you Paul and Fiona: yep I'm off to the Middle Kingdom; in fact we were initially heading to 51 degrees north, 5 degrees west, but the wife changed her mind. Lady albatrosses are like that - must be one of those cute girly things that crosses all species.

On leaving I would like to add that I totally agree with Paul and his sentiments regarding the subject material of his thread.

"Come on Australia – have a heart and accept the consequences of our actions."

At this point in time the world is in a volatile state; politically, economically and environmentally. Climate change, the fight for resources and for the control of Eurasia, a nuclear nation about to implode and of course a financial and political oligarchy that is doing its very best to clean up while having us pay for their greed and stupidity. We'd have to be mugs to let em get away with it - wouldn't we?

If there is one thing we can be sure of is a significant increase in refugees across the planet; what are we going to do, as individuals and as a species?

These displaced and disadvantaged human beings are and will be genuine refugees who will have to find somewhere to survive and thrive; otherwise millions will perish. They will be willing to work hard for the opportunity. Australia must consider its options, look to the future and consider the threats and (ethical) opportunities - with honesty and fearlessness.

Are we going to shut the door on the future and take the: I'm all right Jack pull up the ladder attitude or could we:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

There are many very clever people in this country and around the world who know how to do stuff, good stuff. People without corporate agendas who care about our world. With the right people we could introduce sustainable land and water management systems; develop agriculture that would be compatible with our changing environment; grow hemp, not cotton for example. Create industries to make stuff that the world needs (for the production of real stuff has intrinsic value that creates employment and wealth - unlike financial production that creates little except debt and handsome rewards fot the few).

Maybe someone would like to start a thread and introduce ideas on how we could accommodate a much larger population, create productive and innovative industries (we have heaps of resources that are value added overseas) that could service global needs in the years ahead while creating a truly common (and just) wealth. But we may have to think outside the polygon, be prudent, be prepared to compromise, fear not change and be prepared to share our space in the most creative and environmentally friendly manner known to science.

It could be a wonderful challenge.

We talk about the need for security, it is something we can all agree on but maybe misunderstand. Building walls (borders) does not necessarily makes us secure, but it will make us insular, egocentric and perpetuate that which we fear - a lonely and sad security. Building bridges, on the other hand enables us to connect directly with, and to understand and appreciate others. Security nurtured and sustained by friendship and not fear. It works the same for nations as it does individuals.

One can only dream but ultimately we may realise our personal and national security through being compassionately creative, allowing humans beings from all over the world to live freely in a society that rewards creative minds, hard work, simple honesty and those who wish to live in peace no matter what creed or colour thy neighbour.

Some years ago I was sitting in a Beijing park with an English friend and my Chinese wife. My friend sad: "You know Justin the Chinese have perfected cuteness"  - he then drew my attention to a number of beautiful  little Chinese "pumpkins" playing in the park. One couldn't disagree. My wife smiled and replied: "You know it's the same for us; we think your children are like angels from heaven."

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Sooner or later the inevitable circumstances of change will force our hand; a hand that may well define us as a nation - as a species. Let's hope, for the sake of  those cute little pumpkins and angels (where ever they may be), we make the right choices.

Cheers dears, I'll be back - in about six weeks.

Flaaaap, flaaap, flaap, flap, flap fla....................

Richard:  Clear skies, Justin!

Wrong thread

 

 

"Submitted by Marilyn Shepherd on April 26, 2009 - 3:39pm."

"Criterion for a protection visa"

and

Which part of the bold don't you understand, Alga?

In Australia are the operative words.

Now they can't apply in Africa or China, or Russia or anywhere else because they simply would not be considered.

So should we break our own law and send refugees home?

Your idiot prattling is ignorance par excellence.”

Marylin Sheppard the thread title.


More refugees because "Australia is a "soft touch” – or because more civilians are under threat?”


It's not about coming to this country by boat without a visa. It's nothing to do with protection visa's, you seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact and the contents of my first post.


"Submitted by Alga Kavanagh on April 23, 2009 - 6:49pm.

Technically it's not illegal for people to come by boat to this country, but is it a sane approach to encourage them here."


It's you who don't seem to get it, I'm addressing the thread, you're pushing your answering machine button with blind emotional zeal and displaying your elitist prejudice. I say change our laws, let's have a referendum as to what the people want to do about this growing situation and soon to be flood. We've left it to the elitists and politically correct and they've stuffed the entire country, time for the people to have control and not useless wankers.

 

I only agreed with the LIbs on one thing, we should have the right to determine who comes to this country, not a bunch of elitist vested interests and politically correct numbskull's.

Rubbish

Alga, it was the liberals who helped to write the refugee convention that guarantees the right of anyone to come to Australia and seek protection from persecution without fear of punishment for not having entry documents.

Therefore we don't have the right to decide who comes, only who stays.

And it is not blind emotional zealotry, it is simply the truth.

Root canal

At least there is some show of tackling the problem at its roots, as Australia plans to visit Sri Lanka. Not sure it'll do any good, but it's at least a start to realising that the solution lies somewhere else.

Refugees have an "Australia problem", not the reverse

It depends what you mean by "tackling the problem". I don't think Australia has a big "refugee problem". However, it's clear that refugees are begining to develop an "Australia problem".

The confused, contradictory Rudd stance on refugees, being "tough on refugees" for some audiences, and "soft" for others, depending on what the PR requirements of the PM are at any given moment, will certainly result in more refugees hold up in camps in Indonesia taking the risk of a boat ride acros the Timor Sea  in leaky hulks. And drowning.

And as the Howard era recedes further into history, the  PR spin needed to "explain" the problem will be more difficult for the Ruddites.

They might even have to take a principled, logical standpoint on the refugee issue.

You know? Like their standpoint on the Intervention in the Northern Territory?

Send them back

Fiona Reynolds, I understand you can't see reason and practical logic in dealing with cultural misfits jumping queues and paying huge sums to travel across many countries, to continue with their dysfunctional lifestyles and cultural approaches in this peaceful country. You didn't address any of my points, just emotionally lost the plot.


Fiona Reynolnds, Alga, you have been asked this before, and I'm irritated by having to repeat the request.


Becoming irritated, is a clear sign of an emotional lack of control. Must be tough for you.


Fiona Reyonolds. By the way, your formatting is still causing problems, and as for your spelling and grammar, I've given up trying to correct them.


Once again you use your position as a moderator to publicly attack, without presenting any evidence. Whilst my grammar may not be as bland, stifled and robotic as yours, at least it makes sense to real people.


As for formatting, all my post previews show the formatting as accepted on webdiary and spell checked with my WP and webdiary. I also keep my posts for a month, as I've gotten used to some attempting to manipulate what I say and making false accusations in an attempt to bring me down to their level. The double standards you apply are pathetic, but understandable within ideoligcal thinking.


I forgot to place the author of the quote, and offer no excuse. However I was replying to you and Marylin for your's and her childish replies below.


Submitted by Fiona Reynolds on April 23, 2009 - 6:54pm.

And while we are about it, Alga Kavanagh, what about another referendum - on the restoration of capital punishment?

That would romp it in too.


Submitted by Marilyn Shepherd on April 24, 2009 - 1:58am.

To make it legal to chop off heads in the public parks, or put people in stocks.

And

Fiona Reynolds. You are displaying your own little emotional habit of jumping to conclusions - what have I written that makes you assume that I disagree with you on the desirability of a referendum concerning refugees?


I never assumed anything of the sort, nor said you did, another of your false conclusions. As for capital punishment, I think it would be a very close vote. Unlike you, I find most real people very intelligent, more thoughtful, rational and would only vote for capital punishment for certain crimes. Maybe bring it in to clean up the fatal mistakes committed by bureaucrats, politicians, business leaders and academics. Then we may get some sense in the country. I see the ideologically controlled system at fault and pathetic education, designed purely for elitism.


Send all who come on tourist, student and employment visa's, then try to stay, along with those coming by boat back. Let them undergo the same procedure many millions of others do, who have no money to buy their way here and I see as more deserving of compassion and help. Moving people round the world doesn't solve any problems, just spreads the problems further, as history and present day events show us.


 



Criterion for a protection visa

RELEVANT LAW

4.  Under s.65(1) a visa may be granted only if the decision maker is satisfied that the prescribed criteria for the visa have been satisfied. In general, the relevant criteria for the grant of a protection visa are those in force when the visa application was lodged although some statutory qualifications enacted since then may also be relevant.

5.  Section 36(2)(a) of the Act provides that a criterion for a protection visa is that the applicant for the visa is a non-citizen in Australia to whom the Minister is satisfied Australia has protection obligations under the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees as amended by the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees (together, the Refugees Convention, or the Convention).

6.  Further criteria for the grant of a Protection (Class XA) visa are set out in Part 866 of Schedule 2 to the Migration Regulations 1994.

Definition of ‘refugee’

7.  Australia is a party to the Refugees Convention and generally speaking, has protection obligations to people who are refugees as defined in Article 1 of the Convention. Article 1A(2) relevantly defines a refugee as any person who:

owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

Which part of the bold don't you understand, Alga?

In Australia are the operative words.

Now they can't apply in Africa or China, or Russia or anywhere else because they simply would not be considered.

So should we break our own law and send refugees home?

Your idiot prattling is ignorance par excellence.

Six years of occupation

Australia may not have bombed Iraq to pieces but we were willing helpers and supporters:

Six years into the occupation…

- 72 months of destruction

- $607 Billions spent on the war

- 2 Million Barrels of oil being sold per day

- 2 Million Displaced Iraqis inside of Iraq

- 3 Million Iraqis forced to leave the country

- 2615 professors, scientists, and doctors killed in cold blood

- 338 dead journalists

- $13 Billion misplaced by the current Iraqi government

- $400 Billion required to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure

- 3 hours average of electricity daily

- 24 car bombs per month

- 7 major mafias running the country

- 4260 Americans dead

- 10,000 cases of cholera per year

- 50 of my friends dead

- 22 of my relatives dead

- 15 abductions of close relatives and people I know and love

- At least 1.3 million Iraqis dead since 2003.

We done good; tis something well should all be very proud of - NOT.

And Afghanistan

We don't know how many tens of thousands are dead but we do know the "allies" are slaughtering wedding parties, pretending the Afghans they murder are Taliban, the poppies are growing well and if you think electricity for 3 hours a day is tough.. the Afghans only have 3 hours twice a week.

They have no clean water while the NGO's live in rich fortresses. Our soldiers are well fed, Afghans are dying of starvation every day of the year.

This occupation has lasted since October 2001 yet we still try and deny refuge to Afghan refugees fleeing the hell we have caused.

And before Eliot complains that we didn't cause it, the place was safer for most Afghans before we bombed it to bits. Rubble blown to sand.

Nothing left but the poppy fields. And mafias, drug barons, war lords, murderers and various other gangsters left.

We though chose to spend $3 billion locking up a few thousand refugees and driving them insane.

it's good that the media have taken over Christmas Island, it will stop any idea that people must be mistreated again.

Alan - I feel like a fight

Alan: "Lovely people the Iraqis, and you want them to come and live here."

Two suicide bombers blow themselves up in Iraq - who were these people; were they Iraqis and if so what was their problem? Personally I haven't got a clue.

But we do know that a lad from Tassie slaughtered 35 people some years ago. Apparently he did this because he felt like a victim and wanted to die.

Lovely people those Tasmanians; why would anybody want them on the mainland?

Of course Martin Bryant was also an Australian so why would anybody want Australians to come and live amongst them?

Now, when we look at mass shootings in the US one could only conclude (using Alan's sick and twisted logic): why would anybody want a Yank to come and live here? Especially when the Yanks go on these shooting sprees for no good reason and on a regular basis. I reckon we should round up all Yank kids attending our schools and put them on the first plane home, otherwise our kids will be a grave risk.

And any Yanks who happens to work for the Post Office should be shot on sight.

Alan, how many Iraqi nationals have you personally meet and spent time with?

My next door  neighbour is an Iraqi - he's a good bloke, quiet, gentle and polite, like the rest of his family.

I also have Lebanese, Chinese, Korean, Russian, English, and Australian neighbours and just recently a family of black fellas from Africa moved in. I live in a wonderfully colourful neighbourhood - and that's how I like it.

Alan, the shallowness of your above comment reveals heaps.

PS. Alan I feel like a bloody good fight  - pleeeeeese try and defend your comment.

On seconds thoughts it would be murder - a no contest in fact.

Our refugee policies are 'tough and hard line'

Marilyn Shepherd: "One Iraqi who got to Australia and was turned back. Trust you to pick up on that, Eliot."

According to today's Sydney Morning Herald:

"Asylum seekers in Indonesia have told ABC radio they wanted to try to come to Australia because waiting for up to 10 years for resettlement by the UNHCR was unacceptable."

"One man said although he had been declared a refugee he would try to make it to Australia because he had heard he would be more likely to be accepted by the Rudd Government than by its predecessor. "Kevin Rudd - he's changed everything about refugee," another told the ABC.

"If I go to Australia now, different, different … maybe accepted. But when John Howard president Australia, he said come back to Indonesia."

Yesterday Mr Rudd refused to accept that new waves of asylum seekers were trying to come to Australia since Labor won office in 2007.

"The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees recently in Indonesia described our policies as tough and hard line," Mr Rudd told the Melbourne radio station 3AW yesterday."

Kevin's right. Our policies are tough and hard-line.

But Kevin's spin doctors have been telling the world that they are the opposite - that the policies are all warm and fuzzy and huggy and not at all like the horrible, deranged but otherwise virtually identical policies of John Howard.

Hence, refugees such as those interviewed by the ABC and quoted in the Herald today try to come here by boat - then panic when they are intercepted by the Navy and towed.

Then the obvious thing to do at that point is force the issue by scuttling the boat. There's nothing mysterious or difficult to understand about any of this.

Except:

  • the obvious determination of so-called 'refugee advocates' to go into complete and utter denial about the clear facts staring them in the face,
  • the subsequent emotional impulse to slander anyone who dares state any fact not to their liking (such as the hapless West Australian Premier for example), and;
  • the need to spin puff for the benefit of the Prime Minister, the architect of the very failed policies driving the desparation of the refugees.

Now, that is weird, and perhaps something only psychologists could explain.

What would you do if?

THE NEW ZEALAND BAAAAHH
1 April 2027
EDITORIAL

Another boat load of Australian queue jumpers was taken under tow by a navy frigate yesterday and returned to Australian waters where it was met by the Chinese navy and towed back to Port Kembla harbour.

This has been the 227th SIEV that we have had to deal with since China occupied Australia owing to those greedy and unreasonable Australians insisting on receiving grossly inflated prices for their resources.

Since our Prime Minister, John W Retch, declared he would decide who would enter our great country and under what circumstances we have felt a lot safer and very secure, as such his popularity has skyrocketed according to a recent poll.

It is the opinion of the Baaaahh that our PM has made the right call, for if we were to allow all and sundry to cross our golden shores then our sheep would become very nervous indeed. It is well known those immoral Aussies not only have an unnatural attraction to sheep (they actually think sheep should be used for food and wool) they also have been known to eat their babies after drowning them off Bondi Beach. This is a fact according to our PM, and it would very naive of us to believe otherwise.

Our prolific letter contributor Mary Jane claims that, in the invasion and occupation of Australia, many towns and cities were bombed, the infrastructure destroyed and the population decimated. We would like to assure our readers Mary Jane is only kidding and her letters are in fact complete fantasy.

Our Chinese correspondents have assured us that the Aussie resistance was pathetic and those Akubrahead resisters are a bunch of slimebags who simply do not understand that the Chinese are in fact going to turn Australia into one of the world's greatest open cut mines. Now how cool is that.

It is a fact that the few dozen or so bombs dropped on Sydney, Melbourne and those other capitals we can't remember were targeted only at the resistance; only a few innocent people were injured and that was because they were used as human shields by the resistance.

Our intelligence agencies have also reported that it is not true that many Australians are now living in bombed out homes, tents and in parking lots with very little clean water or electricity.

It is also not true that many Aussie kids are suffering malnutrition, trauma and all types of psychological disorders. In general their parents eat them before they become a financial liability anyway. That is a fact.

We have yet to verify that the Chinese military have rounded up and provided secure lodgings for the resisters, generously permitted them to wander around naked, had mad dogs (and (private school) Englishmen) munch on their bits and encouraged them to have sex with animals. However, if such is true then it only goes to show that the Chinese really are the excellent hosts they claim to be.

Fellow Kiwis, let's all pull together, support our PM, protect our sheep and insist if those economic opportunists from Australia want to step foot on our shores they should go through the correct channels. Besides, how hard is it for an Aussie to go to sunny downtown Beijing and line up for a visa?

Peace and harmony for all - YES we can!

NATIONAL REFERENDUM

To reintroduce the death penalty for the following crimes:

Simply circle the YES box.

1 - Anybody who uses a whipper snipper - YES

2 - Anybody who uses a motor mower - YES

3 - Anybody who uses a leaf blower - YES

4 - Anybody who walks along the right side of the footpath - YES

5 - All green P plate drivers - YES

6 - All politicians who tell lies - YES

7 - All public servants who give you inaccurate information - YES

8 - All call centre staff who put you on hold - YES

9  - All call centre staff who say they will get back to you but don't - YES

10 - Anybody by the name of Geoff - YES

11 - Anybody by the name of Eliot - YES

12 - All police who refuse to take bribes - YES

13 - Any employers who expects you to turn up on time - YES

14 - Any employees who turns up on time - YES

15 - Anybody who thinks the world was created in 6 days -YES

16 - Anybody who doesn't think the world was created in 6 days - YES

17 - Anyboby who does not like Audrey Hepburn - YES

18 - All people who receive public handouts - YES

19 - All taxpayers who understate their income - YES

20 - All taxpayers who overstate their expenses - YES

21 - Anybody who works for the taxation office - YES

22 - All people who own pets (except diabetic cats) - YES

23 - All people who read the Green Left Weekly - YES

24 - All people who read anything at all - YES

25 - Anybody under the age of 97 who thinks John Howard was a great PM - YES

26 - Anybody who does not circle the yes box - YES

27 - Anybody who thinks they know anything at all (especially about global warming) - YES

That should do the trick.

NB - For those wondering why there is no NO box please note that owing to the current economic crises the budget for the Government Printing Office has been cut  - at least we have managed to save a few dollars on artwork and ink.

PS. We have, however, increased the budget for 303 ammunition for obvious reasons.

PPS - Anybody who has had he pleasure of riding (among other things) in a Potomac will be immediately pardoned if found guilty of any of the above crimes.

A close call

Justin: "PPS - Anybody who has had the pleasure of riding (among other things) in a Potomac will be immediately pardoned if found guilty of any of the above crimes."

 Phew ..That lets ME off  the hook  then

My secret agenda - well, not so secret now

Kath darlin, all politicians have their agendas. Mine is a very simple one: to have you all to myself.

Correction

Marilyn, I don't think Australia blew Iraq to bits. Unlike Afghanistan, few Australians have died in Iraq, an indication of lack of contact with the enemy. My understanding is they were doing things like re-building schools, connecting up the water and some local policing. Most objective observers say the situation on the ground there has improved significantly so you'd have to approach that guy and really ask him to go back if at all possible. Clearly his case wasn't very strong.

Let's say I become tired of Switzerland. Unlikely but for argument's sake let's say I do. I can't just plop myself in Germany without going through the proper channels. It's no different for this guy. It's all about the proper channels, Marilyn. There is enough chaos in the world, without creating a new bun rush here and there.

There is no Pacific Solution and they are no longer locking up the kids etc. Also they got rid of the Temporary Protection Visas. You'd be better of appreciating such changes than being impolite toward our government who are only trying to help.

On a separate note, Hillary Clinton has made some nice comments about Anzac Day. Lest we Forget but always try and be a bit more cheerful. Remember these intemperate interventions by disconnected citizens are not always welcome. I always remember that Bakhtiari family you so often expressed fondness for went back home most unhappy about the people who had used them as political pawns. It was all about opposition to John Howard and in the end they felt quite manipulated. Singling out families or individuals as "poster children" is a most unhelpful approach. I am sure the government is quite capable of deciding these things. You have such little faith!

I don't know how you could decide on these cases sitting in your lounge room with a steaming cup of hot chocolate and some much loved, if a little bit worn slippers. Oh dear, the toast is a little bit burnt. You know, stuff like that. You sort of need to be there and have the facts. Over the years I have formed the view that for a reason yet to be determined, facts take longer to arrive in Adelaide than elsewhere. There is something in the air in that city that does drive unusual perspectives. It could even be the water rather than the air. Could Adelaide be the capital of the soft touch? It does seem a bit that way.

Richard: Oi!

Same old same old

Oil, nothing more and nothing less, was the reason Howard jumped in like a madman to blow up Iraq. He ignored AWB's crimes. Iraqis are in a hell of a lot worse mess today than they ever were and yet you still whine on - and if you were in Switzerland perfectly safe you could actually just pop into Germany without visas.

What stupid statements you make.  Refugees by law do not need visas to come to Australia and seek refugee status.

I fail to understand why you bother when you have nothing to say, nothing of substance to add and no interest in any truth.

Like this crime, for example.    If you want evil people traffickers just go to the nearest DIAC office.

Whatever it is you are taking, JO, ease off slowly

Justin: "When was the last time the Afghans, Saudis, Chinese, or Iranians bombed the shit out of a foreign country?"

Well Iran has been doing it for years usually through its wholly owned subsidiaries such as Hezbollah and Hamas. Are you suggesting the Persians were churchy, daffodil  tossing, prancing, grinning Jimmy Carter types like the one who damn near wrecked the US? 

The Afghans, Saudis and Chinese have been bombing and kicking the shit out of themselves and any one else who breathes for as long as everyone else. In the case of China,  probably longer. After ll they invented gunpowder.

"Yep, the Yanks are exceptional experts in ripping people and countries off, invading foreign lands and slaughtering innocent human beings who have done nothing wrong except get in their way."

Fair go, Justin. The Yanks are worse than the rest of the species?

Come on, admit it. You've had a shit of a week? Right? Need to let off an exceptional quanity of piss and wind? The old liver is much shittier even than normal? What's the problem this time? Last week was albatross mating season and you missed it again?

"JO, ease off slowly" - Geoff now you tell me!

Geoff mate: in defence of my earlier post I did mention to Eliot:

"I do agree the Yanks most definitely don't have a monopoly on greed, corruption and violence; in general they just do it bigger and better than anyone else.

It would appear you have noticed I was somewhat aggressive and your following comment was somewhat poignant:

"Come on, admit it. You've had a shit of a week? Right? Need to let off an exceptional quanity of piss and wind? The old liver is much shittier even than normal? What's the problem this time? Last week was albatross mating season and you missed it again?"

Yep all of that old mate - I did a very stupid thing and quit the booze (cold goose, er turkey - fucking useless birds), as a matter of fact I was going to mention same in that post as an excuse regarding my agressiveness - but I don't like making excuses.

Shit mate I haven't had a drop for nearly three weeks (eternity) - for the first four days my hands shook, my head hurt and I though that dying would be a wonderful adventure. Mating was definitely out of the question. It was not until yesterday I started to feel normal again - whatever normal is.

Anyway mate you nailed me in one.

"Fair go, Justin. The Yanks are worse than the rest of the species?"

Geoff - no-  and to argue otherwise would be a fool's errand. Personally I would not use your term "species" (most animals are not greedy, corrupt etc - only the human ones). It is our brains - too big for our own good.

As an aside it should be noted that many indigenous types, such as the Kalahari Bushmen etc, are of a somewhat different (and honest) mindset than us "civilized folk".

But as far as humans go (in general) I agree. It is definitely not fair to use convenient labels to typecast individuals - besides I reckon there is no such thing as a Yank, or a Pom, or a Jew - we are all just individual human beings; all of whom both agree and disagree, as the case may be, with the behaviour of our leaders.

At least in America and Australia we don't get locked up for voicing our opinions.

In fact I originally included in that comment (in fairness) that the Yanks can also be the biggest and best with good stuff as well - but I deleted it because I wanted to have an argument with my dearest Eliot. I was a little disappointed with his reply, I was sort of hoping he would have done better. Maybe he's off the booze as well. If you are Eliot then I know exactly how you feel - poor dear.

Like you I have American (and Jewish) friends and family and as individuals they are all wonderful people in their own very unique ways.

Cheers mate and next time you suspect something about my psychological instability - keep it to your fucking self ;-)

PS. If you want to live a really long time - stop drinking. As they say you may not live longer but it seems a hell of a lot longer.

Shit what am I going to do with my next 27,000 years on planet Earth?

never trust a man who doesn't...

Jus, is that right?

Packing it in, I mean.

Best thing I ever did, a while back.  Short term pain (ego?) for mainly long term gain.

Hope you keep kicking goals. Stick around.

A second from eternity

Justin: "Shit mate I haven't had a drop for nearly three weeks (eternity) - for the first four days my hands shook, my head hurt and I though that dying would be a wonderful adventure ..."

Hang in there old son. You're over the worst of it.

"Personally I would not use your term "species" (most animals are not greedy, corrupt etc - only the human ones). It is our brains - too big for our own good."

Yeah. I meant to confine my comments to the human species. I have an old dachshund who is nearly fifteen. He has been my best mate since he was a few weeks old. He has Cushing's Disease and an inoperable tumour around the pancreas. He has a lung and heart condition that left untreated causes him to blackout several times a day. He has had two major multi vertabrae operations to cure paralysing back conditions. He takes more pills than a Jenny Craig class. Last Christmas Eve he was given days to live by the specialists.

Yet he is still going strong and happily greets every day with a big grin and a cheery good morning. He is smarter than most humans and also by far the most honest and generous person I have ever met. He has never bitten anybody in his life. He has a keen sense of humour, and therefore sometimes likes to play tricks on people, but he has never told a lie and has nothing but contempt for those who have.

One could never mistake him for a human.

Having said that, I am actually highly optimistic for our (human) species despite our obvious flaws. We evolved only a second ago and look how far we have come in that time. A blink of an  eye really. But that's another story.

Four legs good

Geoff, there is a lot to be said for animal company. I have the company of a dog and cat and they are more fun than a hatful of monkeys; also brighter than most of the neighbours.

Eternal moments in timelessness

Thanks for the support Geoff; actually I'm feeling rather good now thanks mate. In fact, so good I'll be off flying again. The wings are looking good and they feel fit and strong; soon I'll be taking off to: 39 degrees north, 116 degrees east.  I reckon I'll do it in a oner, cross winds permitting. 

Sad to hear your dear old dachshund, your best mate, is doing it tough. Hopefully he'll let you know when he's ready to take his leave and hopefully it will be OK, if you appreciate what I am attempting to say.

Speaking of honesty I remember my geography teacher tell an anecdote about the Kalahari Bushman of South West Africa. Apparently some white fellas visited a clan of bushman and spent a few days gathering information and doing stuff; they all got on extremely well as the bushman are a gentle and honest "species". After the white fellas left (in their 4WD) the bushman found somethings that belonged to their visitors: a few bits of copper wire and off cut bits of metal - scraps left over after the white fellas had repaired some equipment.

These scraps, as far as the bushman were concerned, had value but did not belong to them.

Anyway the white fellas drove off and made camp further up the track  to do some more research. Three days and many many miles later the Bushman turned up with the bits of copper wire and scrap then gave it back to the white fellas; the rightful owners.

How cute is that.

39N 116E

Safe voyaging, Justin, don't forget your facemask, and eschew the company of dubious avian viruses...

Iraqi refugee says he'll risk boat trip because of Rudd's policy

An Iraqi asylum seeker in Indonesia interviewed on the ABC's AM radio programme this morning said he still plans to risk sailing to Australia because he's been encouraged by the Rudd Government's changes to immigration policies.

The delay in getting resettled through the UNHCR is also said to be a reason why so many refugees are willing to take their chances at sea.

As soon as a transcript is available, I'll post it.

Rudd's policy tempts risky voyages - Iraqi refugee

In the meantime, here's the audio link.

Yeah, yeah

One Iraqi who got to Australia and was turned back. Trust you to pick up on that, Eliot.

He is from Iraq. We blew his country to bits and Rudd and his band of cretins don't seem to understand that small point.

We are paying the corrupt Indonesian government to keep people like this Iraqi man in Indonesia for years on end rather than actually just help the guy.  He has committed no crime and if he comes to Australia he will be committing no crime.

We are paying the Indonesian government $18 million per annum in this act of bastardry and people are being forced into prostitution and limbo to survive.

Did I tell you that while we pay the corrupt Indonesian government for this horror we pay the UNHCR $12 million per annum to process 11 million other refugees?

Yeah

Marilyn Shepherd: "|He is from Iraq. We blew his country to bits and Rudd and his band of cretins don't seem to understand that small point."

We did not blow all of it to bits, there is is still a bit left for the peace loving Iraqis.

In a second day of major bloodshed, two suicide bombers wearing explosive vests have blown themselves up at the gates of a Shiite Muslim shrine in Baghdad, killing 60 people, Iraqi police said.

At least 125 people were wounded in the attack at the Imam Moussa al-Kadhim shrine in the Shiite neighbourhood of Kadhimiya, a frequent target of insurgent groups, police said.

Lovely people the Iraqis, and you want them to come and live here.

Burning one's boats after crossing the stream

Marilyn Shepherd: "One Iraqi who got to Australia and was turned back."

Well, actually, if you listen to the audio link you will discover that he has not yet left Indonesia, and he says that under "President Howard", Australia's policy made the risk of being turned back too high to take a boat.

But since "President Rudd" has come to office, Australia's softer stance makes it worth the risk because of the long delays in getting UNHCR paper work processed.

His words, not mine.

He blames the incompetence and inefficiency of the UNHCR for excessive delays (10 years in some cases).

He's been in Indonesia so long awaiting them to finalise his paperwork, he's actually learned how to speak Indonesian.

From the report, one gets the impression he's speaking for quite a few fellow refugees, so I wouldn't just dismiss what he's saying because it's not convenient to the government line..

Perhaps if "refugee advocates" spent more time worrying about actual refugees, and less time spinning puff for Kevin Rudd and heaping bile on John Howard (who's actually long retired now), they might be more alert to, and less dismissive of what actual refugees are saying and doing.

Just a thought.

I've emailed the AM programme asking them to fix the link to the written transcript of the interview, which at present is not connected properly.

In the meantime, the audio links are working okay.

Eliot who cares?

What precisely is it you are on about? It is perfectly legal to come to Australia without documents to claim refugee status. Has been for 55 years.

Living in the past

“Alga: "It's always emotion driving those who deem their illogical demands are the best course of action, clearly against the evidence.

What evidence?

Your empathy and compassion for your fellow human beings is admirable, Alga.

Fiona, both yours and Marilyn's reply are wonderful evidence of emotional shock at you being disagreed with, you're always good for a laugh. Just push the button and the recorded answering machine of pompous elitism switches on. I have empathy for all life, not just dysfunctional humans. I have more compassion for the future, not the failed past and disintegrating present, under the control of the ideologically failed politically correct.

Ideologists, support emotional illusionary goals, not unemotional rational logic. Their ideals are not commendable but disastrous, they can only see the mirror in their mind reflecting what they want to see, even as disaster rushes down upon them.

“It was and is called the Refugee Convention and what you are advocating is the return to the old days before WW11 which spawned that Refugee Convention.

146 nations are now signatories, and not one of them is as ignorant as we are.

We were one of the authors of the convention, we were one of the first to sign it and you are talking utter nonsense. In fact, it makes me vomit.”

Marylin, There was no referendum in this country, or I doubt any other. It was designed by the elite who had vested interests and still do. It's all about more money for the elite and ideological control. The refugees of WW2, were in the main, European economic refugee's. Now it's ideological refugees, something entirely different and very dangerous for peace and sustainability, as can be seen world wide.

Living in the past is not conducive to a rational future or makes sense. The refugee convention was designed for the times, not 60 years on when everything has changed dramatically, in every aspect of life and corner of the planet. The ignorance is believing bringing more ideologically controlled people to this country will improve our lives and relieve the overseas situation. It hasn't worked in the past, they also bring their problems with them and as their numbers grow it rears it's head, no matter where they come from or their ideology.

We have historical proof it's the ideologies of religion which bring the most calamity and disaster to those cultures and countries they infiltrate or invade. It's no different here, we have the same type of fools in control who are going down the same path as everyone else allowing unfettered entry into their countries.

Emotional vomit, can be fixed by cleaning out your mind. Other than that, change your diet, sickness can mostly be boiled down to dietary intake, both physical and mental.

And that referendum would prove what?

That turning away Jewish refugees to be slaughtered by a genocidal maniac was so good we can do it again with Afghans and Iraqis?

Are you a complete maniac? You utterly disgust me.

Please be more careful

Alga, you have been asked this before, and I'm irritated by having to repeat the request.

Please observe Webdiary convention of prefacing your quotations from other Webdiarists' comments with the name of that Webdiarist. That might, perhaps, save you from misattributing authorship, as you have done here. The quotation with which you began your comment was from Kathy Farrelly.

You are always good for a laugh too, Alga (remember that I have already identified you as a latter-day Goon?). You are displaying your own little emotional habit of jumping to conclusions - what have I written that makes you assume that I disagree with you on the desirability of a referendum concerning refugees?

By the way, your formatting is still causing problems, and as for your spelling and grammar, I've given up trying to correct them.

Let's have a referendum

It's always emotion driving those who deem their illogical demands are the best course of action, clearly against the evidence. Technically it's not illegal for people to come by boat to this country, but is it a sane approach to encourage them here. It may be a drop in the bucket compared to countries which are accessed by land and easy transport, but continuous drops fill the bucket to overflowing.

The world we know is like a lot of boats in a stormy sea of turmoil, conflict and uncertainty. Australia's boat is just beyond the worst of the storm and those trying to get out of their overloaded sinking boats. They are determined to bring the cause of their overloading with them, to whatever boat's left not sinking.

Does lifeboat Australia with it's limited water, supplies and a full boat for it's size and capacity to sustain them in the growing storm, allow those floundering in their situation to come aboard and disrupt the balance of the boat. Diminishing the resources, pushing the boat lower in the water allowing and allowing more to come on board until the boat is like the rest of the worlds boats, floundering in the storm. If I were the captain of the boat, I'd be thinking of the future of those with me, not those who will only make it harder for the boat to survive the tumultuous storm ahead. Which if no one has noticed, seems to be at full force pretty well everywhere else in the world in various guises.

From what I've read, these boat people are organising their own boats and some have been in Indonesia for years. Once Pakistan falls to the radicals, there will be millions pouring out of the area as the radicals aim at the next domino.

Why is it almost all these people are men? Is it because they know if they get here, they can then import their huge families. So just a small trickle of boat refugees, becomes a flood of family members. It's Invasion by stealth and the politically correct are so sucked in, they refuse to see the reality of what they envisage. But that's ideology for you, considering these boat people have to travel through or pass many countries to get here, most of those countries they would fit into and easily could, so why come all the way here? I bet if we had a referendum to see if we should change the laws, making it illegal to come here by any method to seek asylum, except when Australia is the nearest country to the actual problems. It would romp it in.

The quality of mercy

Alga: "It's always emotion driving those who deem their illogical demands are the best course of action, clearly against the evidence."

What evidence?

Your empathy and  compassion  for your fellow human beings is admirable, Alga.

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
'T is mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway,
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's,
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That in the course of justice none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.

William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice", Act 4 scene 1. Greatest English dramatist & poet (1564 - 1616)

Fiona: Thanks, Kathy. And happy birthday to the Bard...

There was a referendum

It was and is called the Refugee Convention and what you are advocating is the return to the old days before WW11 which spawned that Refugee Convention.

146 nations are now signatories, and not one of them is as ignorant as we are.

We were one of the authors of the convention, we were one of the first to sign it and you are talking utter nonsense. In fact, it makes me vomit.

Let's have another referendum

And while we are about it, Alga Kavanagh, what about another referendum - on the restoration of capital punishment?

That would romp it in too.

And another

To make it legal to chop off heads in the public parks, or put people in stocks.

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