Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

So Malcolm, did you awake in time that day for a little walk?

I do agree with not offending the tourists, and from what I have seen already they are a gay bunch out to do some serious networking (with appropriate virus protection). And that was just the priests.No black crows though anymore.

Cardinal Pell. What can one say? How appalling. Just the typical behaviour that we have seen for decades now. Is that convicted paedophile priest in Brisbane still celebrating mass? Funny how they escape custodian sentence over and over again and yet the down and out scrubouts like that woman who ran off from court charged with driving without a licence get three months gaol.

And Paul, there is a thing called "grooming" where paedophiles get their subjects and families prepared. Pushing the boundaries for society is but another form of this. The naked photographing and displaying of children in sexual context is but one end of a continuum. Full rape and penetration is but the other "end". All lenses should stay in their covers.

I have no tolerance for paedophiles, their networks, their games, their protectors, their PR (both kinds) machine for spin and preparation, and the money it all makes - very big bucks. The executive of the Roman Catholic Church, of whom the Rat was in charge of, are guilty of the highest treason to catholics and Christ by proptecting and enabling paedophile activity. Guilty. Burn.

Now how doyou condense that on to a T shirt?

I think a black arm band worn by all in memory of those abused and deliberately sacrificed would be a great statement. Add red if you are pissed off about the cost to the taxpayer of the religious Mob's games. Add a rainbow for the gays forbidden confession and communion. Perhaps a yellow for the attempt to shut up Holocaust criticisim by the Vatican's threat to reveal AJC actions ...

Perhaps thus one can show a love of what it should stand for with a condemnation of what the executive have made it.

Now that could be better than Tshirts! Although I have a rattusrattus Tshirt that might be appropriate. :>

Cheers

Fiona Reynolds will draw little consolation from the revelations just provided on Lateline concerning Cardinal Pell's cover up of a Catholic priest whose day job appears to have been within the profession of choir boy seducer and pervert.

If she has viewed tonight's show she will realise that the revelation of the hypocrisy and cold blooded mendacity of a foundational institution of society and the resultant emotional damage to victims is a terrible price for a dark truth about the Australian arm of this institution.

We know now that people who show photos of their kids unclothed as a protest and then are abused by the Miranda Devine types in the tabloid press and politics are just tabloid scapegoats. They are diversions to draw attention away from, the real crimes happening within the even most self proclaimedly virtuous, beyond scrutiny, ruling social institutions, that sit in judgement, on the whole of the rest of humanity for even our thoughts, that which is not first prescribed of or proscribed by, these Inquisitors.

BTW, canny Miranda is on holidays, this of all weeks? Wonder if she knew something before the rest of us?

I would have loved a column from her on Pell, given her recent crusading zeal concerning"moral" matters.

Will someone be fined $5000 for wearing a t-shirt like, "The Pope has touched me down under", in current climate of fear from Costa and Iemma's dictatorship?

How about, surely no problems factually with," Touched down under by the Pope's Henchman's shielded lackey"?

Hells Pells indeed!

Unfortunately, Ian MacDougall, all the old traffic law that applied under the very sensible 1909 Traffic Act and its consequent regulations has been repealed and replaced by a series of Acts and Regulations that none of us can understand.  I don't understand it, I have appeared before Magistrates who say they don't understand it and against prosecutors who say they don't understand it.  How some poor dimwit copper is suposed to understand it, let alone the public, is beyond me.

It's more a matter of dimwit politicians pissing all over us for the sake of revenue than pissing on a single wheel as far as I can see. 

But Fiona, "discrimination" is surely not the issue as it is penalty that is the issue of behaviour not one's race / religion / sexuality / ethnicity etc. So I doubt it is any shield for one's rights. Is that not so, Malcolm? Although if one was celebrating one's religion or gayness it might be discriminatory to penalise someone for doing so....

What is so annoying as well is to hold any protest or have anything written up about it or any condemnation that may offend Catholic pilgrims about the behaviour of a certain WW2 pope or the Passion movie or the portrayal of Jews as killers of Christ etc and how that is perceived by many as anti-Semitism and how Jews have suffered in the past due to such Catholic propaganda is liable to a 5000 buck fine, even if it is at the Sydney Jewish Museum, ADL headquarters etc – irony there.

That is a fascinating point, Malcolm B Duncan. I wonder whether it would be possible to invoke section 51(i) in some way as well?

I also wonder whether the Chaser team are residents of New South Wales.

Those of you from interstate who are annoying etc might like to visit.

You might take comfort from s 117 of the Constitution which says:

"A subject of the Queen, resident in any State, shall not be subject in any other State to any disability or discrimination which would not be equally applicable to him if he were a subject of the Queen resident in any other State." 

God save the Head of the Church of England!

And you all know my views on exclamation marks.

Jenny Hume: “… in terms of privileging the sensibilities of a private group, do you not think that the regulations could apply to any private group, for instance those in the gay mardi gras?”

Well, no – they are specific to the World Youth Day event. There were similar regulations for APEC last year, though those did not operate in so vast an area of Sydney, and I think there were probably similar regulations for the 2000 Olympics. The gay mardi gras has no “enabling” legislation whatsoever.

As for the economic “benefits”, perhaps you’d like to check with some of the many business people who were forced to shut up shop during APEC. As I recollect, the Courts were also closed for that period, so barristers at least were also (partly) denied employment during that period.

Kathy Farrelly: “…how about we get together a few other girls with big boobs and make a collective low-cut t-shirt protest, eh?”

Oh yes, let’s. Bags I shout, “Chests out, ladies,” as we begin to march.

I can just see the Fun Police turning tail and running…

Craig Warton: “I understand the principals at stake here, but really, if you would go along and be offensive at a Catholic youth day, would you be prepared to do the same at an Islamic youth day and if not, why not?”

The usual basis for the distinction is that the Catholic Church is part of the mainstream Australian cultural, social and political hegemon, and is therefore 'fair game' in a way that, say, Muslims are not because they're an "oppressed minority" here and so deserve special protection.

It would come as a huge surprise to Catholics, of course, that in Australia they, Catholics, are the dominant cultural group in Australia, but I guess it could be argued that they are nonetheless big enough to look after themselves.

So, mocking them is 'fair' in a way that mocking Muslims isn't because though Muslims are a minority they are not a minority in the way Catholics are a minority.

Mormons, however, are a tiny, tiny minority and have no direct part to play in the mainstream Australian cultural, social and political hegemon. But they can be mocked on the grounds that they are based in the USA where they are also a tiny minority and are subject to persecution on a fairly regular basis.

For example, they get their children taken off them for wearing funny clothes and for having polygamy.

Muslims however cannot be mocked anywhere even when they are in the majority and even when they can have polygamy legally because, well, they can issue Fatwahs and you'd be a fool to try your luck with that.

All the Mormons can do is travel in pairs with names like Elmer and Dexter and be really, really polite in that annoying American way.

I don't know what you can do to Zoroastrians, but i guess they'd be somewhere on the 'mocking' scale between Hindus and Catholics, but way, way to the more mockable end of the continuum than Muslims but not so far as Mormons and Catholics.

Anglicans have no rights at all.

Craig Warton: “I understand the principals at stake here, but really, if you would go along and be offensive at a Catholic youth day, would you be prepared to do the same at an Islamic youth day and if not, why not? because it seems to me that a great many of the people saying we should be allowed to be offensive this time are the same ones who said we shouldn’t be offensive last time.”

Jenny Hume: “Frankly I find any desire on the part of anyone to deliberately offend the faithful or disrupt the world youth day event rather childish. Offensive behaviour is just that, offensive. To deliberately wear the sort of T shirt that 16 year old wore is a good example. It was a clear intention to offend and show disrespect for other peoples' beliefs.”

As at least Jenny is aware, I am an atheist. That does not mean that I object to other people believing in whatever they care to believe in provided that they are prepared to extend similar tolerance to, for example, my views on homosexuality and birth control. As for being offensive, given that I am somewhat well-endowed I think that a low-cut t-shirt could have me annoying or inconveniencing Jews, Christians, Moslems, Hindus … or at least some of them, without even resorting to any particular slogan or picture on my front or back.

The offence, to my mind, is twofold: first, as I’ve said in an earlier comment, the regulation applies to a vast area of Sydney. Second, the regulation privileges the sensibilities of a private group to the detriment of the civil rights and general convenience of the majority of Sydneysiders.

Hi Paul, too rude? Well maybe, but heck the duty would entitle one to a sainthood I reckon. And as for "kissing", only altar boys get to kiss the ring - the Alter-native.

Time for another morning cup of coffee. 

Gee, Michael, wow gosh golly, gush. Imagine where it's been.

Cheers

Or … Get your notaries off my Madame Bovarys.

Seriously though, one is looking for as volunteer tail gunner to assist in a project supporting WYD.

This involves taking off from Bankstown in one’s tiny crimson Fokker try plane, its belly swollen and converted to agriaviation with about 250,000 coloured edible condoms. The sorties? As designated by the WYD Act & Regs, to shower protection on the racetrack left vulnerable by incompetent Howard Minister McGauran.

Chocks away, chaps!

Wing Commander Dr Sir Jack Woodforde, OAM, The Well Read Barren

Dylan Kissane: Fiona, do you feel the same temptation to visit the SCG, the Sydney Football Stadium or a Marine Park with the aim of getting arrested?

Dylan, my primary objection to the World Youth Day Regulations is their ambit: many of the WYD “declared areas” are public places where ordinary citizens are entitled to go about their ordinary business and to exercise their freedoms of expression and assembly. By contrast, places like the SCG and the Sydney Football Stadium impose entry requirements – see, for example, the following:

Sydney Cricket Ground and Sydney Football Stadium By-Law 2004

4 Entry to Ground

(1) A person must not, except with the approval of the Trust, enter any part of the Ground (including any grandstands or buildings on the Ground) unless the person:

(a) pays the admission fee (determined by the Trust) for entrance to that part of the Ground, or

(b) is in lawful possession of a current membership card authorising entry to that part of the Ground and produces it for inspection on demand made by a member of the Trust or an authorised person, or

(c) is in lawful possession of a ticket of admission authorising entry to that part of the Ground and produces it for inspection on demand made by a member of the Trust or an authorised person.

So no, I probably wouldn’t be tempted to visit the SCG with a view to getting arrested during the WYD “festivities”. However, had I been in Sydney at the time of the 1971 Springbok tour, I probably would have done my darndest to have joined in the protests at the SCG.

Eliot Ramsey: “I think what we have here is an hysterical beat up by histrionic anti-Catholic exhibitionists yearning for the moral kudos of 'victimhood' status, oddly not too differently from the more pietistic fringe elements of the Catholic Church itself. In other words, this is probably just Catholic bashing in the Camille Paglia sense of the phrase, thinly disguised as a concern with civil liberties.”

Eliot, please see my response to Dylan Kissane. Besides, I’ve never bashed a Catholic in my life, and have no intention of starting now.

Scott Dunmore: "There's plenty of Catholics out there as disturbed as the rest of us."

I don't doubt that.

Michael de Angelos: "No Eliot, that won't be on my t-shirt. I did wear one tonight at a little art show in a small marquee outside St Mary's that was opened by His Eminence Cardinal Pell."

No Eliot, that won't be on my t-shirt. I did wear one tonight at a little art show in a small marquee outside St Mary's that was opened by His Eminence Cardinal Pell.

It featured a Chicago motorcycle policeman on his knees kissing the ring of Pope Pius XII – I've waited years for the right occasion. Sadly Pell didn't bat an eyelid and even worse-one of his accompanying priests (known as Pell's Angels) admired it. Back to the drawing board for me – my protest skills are slipping badly.

I should have photo-shopped the head of an SES worker onto the policeman or perhaps Morris Iemma's head, or added some offensive statement underneath. I think I was mistaken for a work of art.

But then I was told that if I helped with assisting some disabled people get to the Pope's mass I could get a seat in the first few rows.

So I'm torn between two worlds at present – I'm a potential pilgrim but want to protest as well, especially as I'm after Frank Sartor's or John Watkins’ head. What shall I do?

And I've been ordered to be on my best behaviour by the missus who told me she prayed after seeing the coffin of Pier Giorgio Frassati arriving and her migraine evaporated within minutes. She was advised by her priest cousin before we were married that a Catholic marrying a Socialist was almost sacrilegious.

I'm very confused at present.

I recall from one of my crim law texts...a youth was arrested for wearing a T-shirt that had the offensive statement: "Too drunk to fuck".

His defence, apparently successful at the time, was:

"Me mum gave it to me for my birthday so I had to wear it."

"I’m sorely tempted to visit Sydney on this ridiculous occasion, wearing the most offensive t-shirt that I can lay my hands on, and see if I can get arrested."

Well, oddly enough, you can do that in Queensland already as has been pointed out in the Perverts in the Shrubbery thread.

My bet is that nobody will get arrested in Sydney during World Youth Day for wearing offensive t-shirts under any new legal provisions, and that if anyone wears a 'Jesus is a C....' t-shirt or similar, as did the haples teenaged 'Cradle of Filth' fan on the Gold Coast, and they get charged it will be within the terms of the Offences in Public Places Act, or something like that.

I think what we have here is an hysterical beat up by histrionic anti-Catholic exhibitionists yearning for the moral kudos of 'victimhood' status, oddly not too differently from the more pietistic fringe elements of the Catholic Church itself.

In other words, this is probably just Catholic bashing in the Camille Paglia sense of the phrase, thinly disguised as a concern with civil liberties.

It's a bit like when a persecuted religious minority has its council development application refused ostensibly on 'town planning' grounds, when in fact we all know it's really about religious vilification and they were turned down because people are Islamophobic. 

For example...

"An independent planning assessment of a $78 million proposal by the Hillsong Church to build a seven-level office building and a 2700-seat church in the inner city suburb of Rosebery has recommended the application be refused."

Oh, hang on. That's the wrong DA.

Here we go...

"When the Quranic Society, a Muslim group based in Sydney, applied last October to build a 1,200-student Islamic school on a patch of farmland it owns just outside Camden, it ignited a storm of protest."

There. That's the one.

Angela, that would be a very rude T shirt to wear!

Thanks to Richard Tonkin for moving the thread along, just when one or two folk were on the verge of getting bogged down in a gluey bog of sentimentality.

The comment from Dylan Kissane had me thinking, as to press/media coverage, that a broadsheet once would have been defined by its carrying of a "balancing" piece along the lines of many posts here.

As for teasing the Muslims, they were always going be on the defensive given their minority status as "other" in western countries, compounded by their perceptions of themselves as oppressed by mid eastern politics. Whereas catholicism is part of the dominant hegemon of our society, and the dominant meta narratives of a society should always remain legitimate targets for examination within that culture.

As Socrates said, "the unconsidered life is hardly worth living".

Eg, satirising Christianity or one of its sects for some sort of inconsistency is "within the family"; a sort of process of internal discourse for self health.That is, except if it turns to bigotry, as it could do if people are too crass and take the youth day thing as an excuse for Catholic bashing. Which would then represent a deterioration of discourse to counterproductive and the same sort of ignorant nastiness that has been directed at Muslims by rednecks, over recent times.

It's the second-generation impacts of the counterterrorism laws that are being felt more than the originals.  The cut and paste of such into anti-bikie legislation in S.A. has been raising eyebrows, though nobody blinked last time around.    Similarly, with this reapplication of the APEC powers, it becomes obvious what we've given away.

If it wasn't for Dale Mills getting people organised last time, all those pictures of unbadged police officers wouldn't have graced the front page of the SMH.  All that came out of that, though, was a quiet correction by Scipione. 

Sunset clauses, folks.  We shouldn't be letting such laws through without them.  It's obvious that new powers, brought in to deal with "emergencies", are not going to be revoked.   Everyone's seen the last of the Star Wars movies?

Apart from, this time around, assuming that all this is (mostly) a diversion for deploying enough troops to handle a terrorism crisis, I've become more than a bit jaded by the lack of public reaction to civil liberties concerns.  Went to Sydney last time to offer what little help I could.   Stood in front of the cops and experienced comply-or-else.  For those who haven't , read here.

Unless there's a public outcry at the level of police control the status quo will remain just that and nothing more.  I can't see that happenning in Sydney this time around, so I figure that this battle's over.

Michael de Angelos: "Creeping fascism - probably quite apropriate for a visiting former member of the Hitler Youth league."

Will that be on one of the t-shirts?

Hey, does everyone remember this?

"The unanimous decision by the Sydney Peace Foundation, functioning under the auspices of the University of Sydney, to present the 2003 Sydney Peace Prize to Palestinian leader Hanan Ashrawi, has resulted in an avalanche of intimidation, coercion and bullying by Zionists and other right-wing layers in Australia intent on forcing a retraction. Behind their scurrilous campaign is an attempt to equate any criticism of the criminal policies of the Sharon regime with a defence of terrorism."...

"That Ashrawi is facing a campaign to strip her of the Sydney Peace Prize is yet another expression of the ruthless methods employed by the Sharon regime and its international backers to suppress and silence any opposition. It also provides a revealing insight into the dirty behind-the-scenes intrigues, veiled threats and stand-over tactics carried out within business and ruling circles in Sydney, Australia’s financial capital."

Maybe if the Pope had been in Hamas instead of the Hitler Youth?

Oh, that's right. He was forced into the Hitler Youth.

You are quite right Craig, I guess. The principles of not respect apply to all, I guess. All the same, the freedom of speech principle and right to protest also applies to all, especially those in a position of power who have abused such.

While Roman Catholicism is not for discussion, what the power organisation does is, just as what Wahabists or radical Islamist governments do is.

If religion uses its power to influence politics, positively or negatively, then it is in the loop of discussion and open to criticism for its actions.

If the Pope chooses to shield and honour paedophile perpetrators and protectors from the Chicago diocese then he is open to criticism.

If the P2 Masonic power group is involved with the banking and murder scandals involving Calvi and Marcinkus and this Pope is their figure head then he is open to investigation and enquiry, and criticism is demanded when such does not happen. We have the still unexplained death of JP1 and the Vatican immunity to any police investigations or autopsies of the most powerful individual leader of world religion!

"Such theories connect Orlandi's disappearance and the still unsolved death in 1982 of Italian Roberto Calvi, known as "God's Banker," who was found hanged from Blackfriars Bridge in London after the institution he ran, Banco Ambrosiano, collapsed. Calvi was first ruled to have committed suicide, but an Italian court found last year that he had probably been murdered by the mafia for losing money he was supposed to launder. Marcinkus ran the Vatican Bank – formally "the Institute for Religious Works" – which owned part of Ambrosiano and was found partly responsible for its $1.3 billion of bad debts. Italian newspapers quoted a woman called Sabrina Minardi as saying that her late boyfriend Enrico de Pedis, a boss of Rome's notorious "Magliana Gang" which was active until the early 1990s, killed Orlandi and threw her body into a cement mixer. “The decision came from a high level, sort of Marcinkus. It was a message to someone above them," newspapers quoted Minardi as telling investigating magistrates in recent days...."

The current witch-hunt against one of the greatest bishops the Catholic Church has had, Robinson, is an example of the bigotry and power perversion that has taken hold for a very long time. One wonders when it was ever "goog" since Constantine’s time, considering the poisoning power and the love and protections if it has done to the church.

The current Cabal area sending the Catholic church back to pre-Vatican 2 and stopping any righteous changes. The very hypocritical lifestyle the Papal dogma imposes upon women shows a misogyny that outdoes any medieval Islamic versions that know no better. No contraception, no role but that of serving men, no wives for priests, no women priests – not even for discussion despite the enormous shortage of priests and high education level of modern women. How many Australian Catholic women use contraception? How many died using the excuse of hysterectomy to stop the continuing number of babies in the past? And what of this new elevation of Mary, in line with Opus Dei founder’s obsession with the cult? Look at the institutions of learning now controlled by Opus Dei, even John's College at Sydney Uni, while the Jesuits are sent off to do refugee work. Does Opus Dei, with its secret guide book – NOT the New testament but based upon Masonic power lineage and such structure – have the WAY to properly guide Catholics in the Faith when there is so much evidence it has just corrupted itself at the core?

David Yallop's book abut JP1 murder and Hutchinson’s well researched book about Opus Dei’s rise and control are a good start to enlightenment. The way forward is so beautifully and eloquently discussed in Bishop Robinson’s new book and the standing ovations on his writing tour of the States shows that the true backbone of the church is not blind to the evil of the current regime and their deeds of power. When you have any unaccountable secret society involved in power plays there is wounding of a church's very soul.

And Jewish groups better beware about criticising as the Catholic church is "still withholding some WW2 documents” about WJC action. Secrets and more secrets, how Christian.

But please explain why $136 millions plus over $20million in Federal monies plus compensation to the Jockey Club is given to a religious festival plus the security costs....etc??? Wow, two thousand plus teachers, or the debts of seven universities, or a lot of new police on the beat, 20,000 youth/child protection workers for DOCS, a lot of new buses…

And all for a group whose leader has NOT shown or displayed Australian values such as freedom of speech (Ratzinger was head of Inquisition and shut down criticisms of church doctrine and priest behaviour and banned books about such), women's rights (to safe sex – Ratzinger banned condom use for Catholics in AIDS-infested Africa and banned education of such and allowed Catholic teaching that condoms were not impervious to HIV virus – LIED and people DIED) and rights to contraception within marriage that works (lotta fluff that rhythm works as well as OCP), displayed abuse of other religions, is unaccountable to the legal jurisdiction of any state, and the criminal accusations regarding the Mafia and money laundering and murders as well as the well-documented cover-up of pedophile priest behaviour.

The Mafia can pay for its own. And they don't even pay taxes.

Hollingsworth resigned as GG due to a comment not condemning a mate's sex with a 14 yr girl. This “Pope”, voted in by stacking the Cardinals with Opus Dei stooges, should resign due to his abject evil covering up and protecting paedophiles and linking the Church with criminal murders and money laundering

Sure, don’t criticise the pilgrims or upset Them. they are merely the base of the pyramid…

But otherwise, cheer on in ignorant bliss or the myth.

The mire beneath has a rising stink. And only the bravest within the church dare to speak out and they are silenced. Dance on, enjoy, it is all a farce until it is properly set to rights.

But don't dare wear an offending T-shirt.

T-Shirts cover many sins of the flesh, but one big enough to write all the flesh sins of the church leadership is beyond even Pamela Anderson.

Cheers

Kristina Keneally speaks with a forked tongue.

The laws have never given SES officers the same rights as police.

The police also claim they have the right to pre-approve  t-shirt slogans and signs at demonstrations which can only be held in designated areas. This is similar to the last US election when Bush officials provided designated areas for anti-Bush demonstrators, usually well away from where the general public or media could see them, thus perverting their rights to free speech.

Creeping fascism - probably quite apropriate for a visiting former member of the Hitler Youth league.

Fiona, I have never been religious and frankly I have had my fair share of hassles from the subject.

I joined the Army as an apprentice in 1980 and going to Church was considered as part and parcel of things. I did not really want to do that and eventually got allowed out of it. Of course the army was not that straightforward and I spent the time while the service was on cleaning. Except the cleaning was scrubbing out urinal drain pipes with steel wool and bare hands.

One does not forgive (or forget) such bastardry and I made it my point to cause grief when I could. Because of me being a pain the apprentice school introduced and "opt out" so that people could fall out and stand at the side of church parades.

As I have "matured" I have gone more for the live and let live routine. I leave them alone and they leave me alone.

What I don’t like though is an inconsistent approach towards different religions.

A few years ago there was a rather animated discussion on this site about some cartoons of a rival groups version of JC. Indeed, quite a few of our local media groups would not publish the cartoons - not wanting to offend.

Yet here people are complaining that they can't wear an offensive T shirt or insult this mob.

I understand the principals at stake here, but really, if you would go along and be offensive at a Catholic youth day, would you be prepared to do the same at an Islamic youth day and if not, why not? because it seems to me that a great many of the people saying we should be allowed to be offensive this time are the same ones who said we shouldn’t be offensive last time.

An extract from Kristina Keneally's piece in the SMH puts the 'annoyance' clause into a little bit of context:

Much has been made of the regulations that give police the ability to direct a person to leave for causing "annoyance or inconvenience" at World Youth Day celebrations. Critics have suggested that the regulations are a sweeping new power so police can protect the sensitivities of participants.

In fact, the "annoyance and inconvenience" clause is neither new nor specific to World Youth Day. It is present in at least 15 acts and regulations in NSW, ranging from the National Parks and Wildlife Regulation to the Sydney Cricket Ground and Sydney Football Stadium by-laws. Penalties can be more severe for creating "annoyance and inconvenience" than those proposed for World Youth Day, such as a maximum penalty of $11,000 under the Marine Park Regulation.

Fiona, do you feel the same temptation to visit the SCG, the Sydney Football Stadium or a Marine Park with the aim of getting arrested?