Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

Actually, when viewing the TV footage there seemed to be very few non-protesters there at all, just little clumps, didn't see any Aussie flags but maybe i didn't freeze frame enough to zero in.

Chinese propaganda message / viewpoint / perspective seemed to be repeatedly voiced, almost verbatim, across our media talkback; the letter in commentary SMH page was repeated almost word for word by Xu/Su on Radio National talkback last night. As they used to say, repeat it often enough and everyone will believe it. K.I.S.S. We invaded sure but we brought social equality and technology of Mao. Lucky Tibetans, they should be grateful.

If they are backward in resources or social justice it is OK to invade because then you can set up schools and hospitals. That must make NSW a prime target.

Some, it seems, felt there were violence and threats from the pro-China lobby and for those interested, there were people flown from all over the place to be pro-China supporters in this blood red field. And those I spoke to said sheepishly that "it was expected".

"Reds under the beds"? Don't be ridiculous! They line our capital’s roads to dominate the voice of protest, they own our companies, they slave as individuals to make our goods so cheaply our own manufacturing is gone, they influence our government, and they are armed to the teeth with the latest technology the US has produced due to their background allies.

Reds under the beds we wish. Gone are the days. So many echoes of the celebration of Nazi like totalitarianism and so many have juxtaposed it.

I wonder how Ian Thorpe felt being so cheered on by the blood red crowds that lined the roads. Perhaps an appropriate symbol.

Thank goodness we not are sending any athletes from which the games may gain disrepute. Phew, heck, what a relief.

Look forward to the blood red games.

Cheers

As many as 10,000 “China supporters descended” on Canberra yesterday for the Beijing Olympics torch relay through the Australian capital.

There were several incidents in which large, vocal groups of China supporters surrounded and taunted smaller groups of Tibetan activists.

Mr Stanhope says he is aware of contact between the embassy and Chinese organisations but does not know the degree of resourcing or support provided by the embassy.

Stanhope, however, seems fairly unperturbed by the unknown-ness of “the degree of resourcing or support provided” by agents of the Chinese government in Australia.

He says any Australian ambassador would probably do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

“Just imagine if this had been the Australian torch relay in some other foreign capital,” he said.

“I’m sure the Australian residents in that particular country at the time would have flocked and would have perhaps expected or anticipated some support from their embassy, so I think it’s a quite reasonable thing to do.”

Well yeah, sure...

It’s quite conceivable that droves of Aussie expats, resident students and tourists would have “descended” on the streets of Beijing in order to “surround and taunt,” say, Australian Aboriginal activists protesting at an Australian Olympics torch relay in that city.

Agencies of the Australian government in China would almost certainly have provided some significant “degree of resourcing or support” for such activities.

Yep, it could easily happen...!

Hundreds of people demonstrated in cities including Beijing, Wuhan, Hefei, Kunming, and Qingdao - often outside stores of the French chain Carrefour.

Passions ran high, but the protests were closely patrolled by police.

Protesters say they are angry at the scale of protests that accompanied the Olympic torch relay in Paris.

They have also denounced French President Nicolas Sarkozy's refusal to confirm whether he will attend the opening ceremony of the Games.

It's good to see the Olympic spririt spreading across the globe.

Eliot: "The Israelis are very much united as far as the Israel thing goes. As far as they are concerned the West Bank is part of Israel. Fullstop."

One may only assume this includes all (or most) Israelis other than those involved in the 'peace process'. Otherwise one would have to suppose the Israelis negotiate in bad faith, or something. And that's just silly!

"The troubled Olympic torch relay has arrived in Thailand, as more controversy erupted when one of the Japanese hosts dropped out in protest over China's crackdown in Tibet."

Justin Obodie: "Israel is a democracy with a free press exactly like China is not."

Yes, Justin. I know.

Eliot: "The Israelis are very much united as far as the Israel thing goes. As far as they are concerned the West Bank is part of Israel. Fullstop. "

No they're not and you know it.

Israel is a democracy with a free press exactly like China is not.

Apples and mandarines.

I've never known anybody who at the same time is both emperor and swindler.

But beware, the winter approaches and we all know what cold weather does to bollocks.

In your last two comments, Eliot, you've referred to "we":

"When Communist regimes press the propaganda button, we jump."

"... it's nice to think there's still somewhere we can turn to for inspiration."

Who is "we"?  You and who else?

"As it fights back against foreign criticism of its Tibet policies, China has at times appeared to have dusted off one of its propaganda manuals from the Cultural Revolution.

Through its state-controlled media, China has called US Congressional leader Nancy Pelosi "disgusting" and "detested", while the Dalai Lama has been branded a lying "wolf with the face of a human and the heart of a beast"."

After the humiliation suffered by the Italian Communist Party this week, it's nice to think there's still somewhere we can turn to for inspiration.

 Justin : "Give Tibet back to Tibetans; then give Australia back to our aborigines.  Time sooner or later makes hypocrites of us all."

Give Tibet back to the Tibetans, then give Israel back to the Arabs. Time sooner or later makes hypocrites of us all.

 "The Chinese are very much united as far as the Tibet thing goes. As far as they are concerned Tibet is part of China. Fullstop."

 The Israelis are very much united as far as the Israel thing goes. As far as they are concerned the West Bank is part of Israel. Fullstop.

Mao Zedong, with one of the best (pragmatic) administrators ever - Deng Xiaoping - united the Chinese under communism. A full belly certainly helps capture the minds and imaginations of the masses.

Mao of course believed in communism for the punters, but as far as he was concerned he was their new emperor and behaved as such.

Time (and opportunity) makes hypocrites of us all.

Having said that I love the (gentle) Chinese (but not their government) and feel far safer wondering through the Hutongs of Beijing than I do the alley ways of the Cross.

I'm sure those who visit China for the Games will feel likewise.

The Chinese are very much united as far as the Tibet thing goes. As far as they are concerned Tibet is part of China. Fullstop.

Give Tibet back to Tibetans; then give Australia back to our aborigines.

Time sooner or later makes hypocrites of us all.

Alga Kavanagh: "Eliot, I watched an interview on TV with a Chinese from the Chinese students association and he stated they were organising buses to bring the students to Canberra and were being supported by the Chinese government and embassy."

Thanks Alga. Very disturbing development.

Eliot, I watched an interview on TV with a Chinese from the Chinese students association and he stated they were organising buses to bring the students to Canberra and were being supported by the Chinese government and embassy. The article below appeared in the Age today and whilst not mentioning the buses, is pretty representative of their aims. I would believe they don't expect the programmed clones to walk to Canberra, so do need to arrange transport for them.

“Thousands of Chinese Australians are being asked to converge on Canberra next week to rally and defend the Olympic torch against pro-Tibet protesters.

The mass campaign is being organised by Chinese student and community leaders in Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra, while the Chinese embassy in Canberra is also said to be actively supporting a peaceful show of strength.

Zhang Rongan, of the Chinese Students and Scholars Association, said he expected more than 10,000 Chinese and Chinese Australians to go to Canberra for the torch arrival on April 24. He said he was arranging "strong men" to protect against any attacks from pro-Tibet or Falun Gong forces.”

Craig: “So, Alga, you're saying that Australian authorities should behave in the very same way as the government we're critical of, yes? The State should just round up any people expressing an opinion we're not happy with and deport or "disappear" them?”

Craig, I have not said round up anyone, other than those who involve themselves in this current demonstration and other demonstrations which are not related to Australian situations. Everyone should have the right to express their opinions, but not violently or disruptively, especially if you are a foreigner. Chinese and all overseas students are guests in our country to obtain education, not to demonstrate or disrupt in support of their overseas governments' agendas. I do understand the politically correct approach of doing nothing, but supporting people’s right to act stupidly and forget the consequences for all, but sometimes you have to draw the line. If we don't draw a line as to what we will tolerate and throw those out who want to create problems, then we will end up as just another basket case of politically correct stupidity and elitist arrogant ignorance. The same goes for overseas supporters of Tibet here and those who are not citizens of this country if they create problems because of their support for overseas events, governments and culture - just throw them out. We should be free in this country, but not free to create problems because of overseas situations, approaches, culture and beliefs. If we had a decent government system and not the mealy mouthed gutless corporate clones we currently have running the country, we wouldn't have these problems. Sadly we are witness to the worst forms of government and corruption every seen in this country and when you have millionaires, bureaucrats, corporations and the religious running the place, the only outcome is disaster as we are seeing. Just a read of the article I have linked will give anyone with half a brain an understanding as to what could happen when you allow overseas interests to bring more than 10000 ideological nut cases together, then add the blue and white Chinese thugs into the mix and we have a recipe for mayhem.

I wonder how many have noticed the Chinese blue and white thugs are all over 180 cm and how they treated people and torch bearers, along with comments from Olympic officials (Sebastian Coe and others). Maybe they will take notice of this Chinese attempt to influence the direction and actions of this country. The Chinese set up this worldwide torch propaganda and now they are seeing the consequences of their egocentric ignorance, so their thugs shouldn't even be allowed into the country and certainly should not be allowed off their plane.

Remember one thing: if this was China, we couldn't even discuss this online, but it's nice to know what and who people really support, against the viable and peaceful future of our country. I do believe the best and most forceful way to show our disgust for China is to wear Tibetan flags and turn our backs to the torch parade. This would send a powerful, yet peaceful, message to all overseas societies that Australia approaches things differently and peacefully. But it won't happen, as both sides only want to do it their way and the government just wants more opportunities to impose extra draconian security laws and suppressions.

Alga Kavanagh: "I note with interest how the Chinese propaganda machine has swung into action and is now organising thousands of Chinese students in our country to go to Canberra and demonstrate in support of china, they are actually hiring buses to take them to the ACT."

Hi, Alga. What's the evidence for this? Where have you heard this?

I note with interest how the Chinese propaganda machine has swung into action and is now organising thousands of Chinese students in our country to go to Canberra and demonstrate in support of china, they are actually hiring buses to take them to the ACT. I see this as a direct affront to our country. These students should be rounded up and sent back to China with an appropriate message telling the Chinese they should go jump and stop trying to control others’ lives.

The biggest problem we face in China/ Australian relations is Rudd the dud. Clearly he is well versed in brown nosing as seen with Bush and just about everyone else he has met. I bet the Chinese feel they can push Ruddaway airline to start flying the Chinese flag on everything and to give them access to any aspect of our country. I think the idea of lining the torch route wearing Tibetan flags and turning your back is an excellent suggestion. From the accounts I've read, the Chinese blue and white thugs are certainly representative of a very suppressive dictatorship and should be banned from entering Australia.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the feudal barbarians In Beijing weren’t disquieted through any jostling of the “sacred” Olympic torch by pro-human rights activists in Canberra?

And the sycophantic money gods of Olympia were not forced into ungainly contortions, appeasing China whilst tut-tutting over Tibet, and howling like blue-arsed mandrills at demonstrators, via the media of course.

How about we leave the torch alone, and focus on a few custard tarts in the moosh for any of the Emperor Hu’s blue and white goons skulking about the route? And surely Leni Riefenstahl will capture it for posterity.

Rev Dr Woodforde, OAM (awarded for jihad through doubt to faith)

Actually, there is of course a famous debate about the Legitimacy of Violence as a Political Act between Noam Chomsky, Hannah Arendt, Susan Sontag and others. And Noam speaks directly about China.

Here are two quotes from it by Noam Chomsky:

"China is an important example of a new society in which very interesting and positive things happened at the local level, in which a good deal of the collectivization and communization was really based on mass participation and took place after a level of understanding had been reached in the peasantry that led to this next step."

Then there's this beauty:

"Indeed, a recent article in the China Quarterly -- which is hardly a pro-Red Chinese journal -- compares Chinese and Russian communization to the very great credit of the Chinese communization, precisely for these reasons, pointing out that its greater success in achieving a relatively livable and to some extent just society was correlated with the fact that these methods involved much less terror. This relates to a point Dr. O'Brien raised. I'm not at all convinced that the alternatives are hard and fast, either/or, violent revolution or peaceful stagnation."

"Government should give automatic approval for demonstrations, and encouragement, with publicity assistance and enhancement of the event."

I can just imagine Kevin Rudd explaining this to the Chinese president during his visit there tomorrow.