Webdiary - Founded and Inspired by Margo Kingston

Mike: "It is commonly held that the distinctive nature of terrorism lies in its deliberate and specific selection of civilians as direct targets."

If this is the nature of terrorism, would this make the US one of the world’s worst terrorist nations with its bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

I believe that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Most nations will resort to extreme violence when under pressure. To move on, civilized nations should treat all war as murder and make it illegal in all its forms. The perpetrators of war are war criminals.

Well, Mike, that will teach me to draw inferences from your earlier statements that "When I did it, I came out dead center on the "left-right" axis",

and

"This time [my emphasis] I came out as a left-leaning libertarian",

won't it!

Your comment is superb, your deep concern about the right-wing direction contemporary Australia is moving in is apparent.

We may come from different orientations regarding religion but we both care about our country and its people.

Well done!

Gareth Eastwood said "Perhaps Donna should attend a political protest in Uzbekistan, see what a real “police state” is like". An easy aspersion to cast Gareth, and people might even pay attention to it - but only when true.

I wonder, Gareth, if you'd like to acknowledge now that Donna has seen real police states in action, and that her thinking ought be given extra weight because of it.

Donna has participated in nonviolent actions in Palestine, and seen the Israeli army's responses first-hand. She has come under fire in Iraq and was among the first group of westerners to enter Fallujah in April 2004 – where she was exposed to the grisly results of US policing in another occupied territory.

If Donna is shocked because of what she saw in Sydney, then what she saw must have been shocking indeed.

All over Australia today, there are signs of a larger, stronger, and more intrusive security apparatus. State police forces all possess arbitrary "move-on" powers to remove and/or imprison the undesirables. The Commonwealth police and security agencies are exploding in number and power while Howard/Ruddock diminish the role of the judiciary in regulating the use of these secret powers.

The threat to democracy in Australia today does not come from marginalised wannabe bomb-throwers. It comes from an unrestrained executive wielding powers they were never meant to have. I'm worried. I think you should be too.

Fiona: "Perhaps we could start with why he changed his given name from Robin to Robert…"

I know nothing about Askin, but it seems to take a strong man to bear the name Robin. I've never been introduced to a male Robin, but I've met plenty of Robs who might have had the name.

There are a few famous exceptions, and Williams of the ABC even manages to cope with my spelling, which is usually considered the female form.

Geoff, the picture was fantastic! I've moved from under the bed to a cave hidden deep in the bush.

Gareth, I appreciate your attempts to “paint the black snake white” but remain unconvinced. It might have something to do with women and children being kept in concentration camps for three to four years and people with mental problems being deported and Australian citizens being abandoned to the tender mercies of American interrogators.

Could I suggest you take your eyes off your share portfolio and the rising value of your house and take a good, hard look at the world you live in (both here and overseas). Try to project your mind forward five or ten years. Then ask yourself: is everything really so relaxed and comfortable?

Daniel, re “as I'm being frog-marched towards a car by men in trench coats and fedoras I'll tell them, "But GARETH said this could never happen!" I don’t recall writing that. It might happen to you, depends on what you get up to in your spare time.

Re “Look carefully at what is happening in America.” I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. A lot of things happen in America.

Re “Remember Peter Reith and the Alsatian dogs?” Yes, I don’t recall having a problem with what occurred during the waterfront dispute either.

Re “Economic management is not the only measure of good government.” Very true, I think the most important goal of government is to act in the best interests of the electorate. This means safeguarding the security, health and economic wellbeing of the populace. In practice I see it as a government that does what it believes is right or the best option available. Honesty, compassion and ensuring equality are pretty fluffy goals, Daniel. I’d prefer dishonest bastards who looked after the best interests of the country and all its people over an honest and compassionate but utterly useless populist government.

Zimbabwe is a good example of why sound economic management is so important. You can’t have food, housing, health, education and a protected environment if you can’t afford it. Mugabe is on track to ensure equality in Zimbabwe: soon virtually everyone will be poor and starving.

Gareth, at midnight, as I'm being frog-marched towards a car by men in trench coats and fedoras I'll tell them, "But GARETH said this could never happen!"

Look carefully at what is happening in America, Gareth. It will give you some idea of what right-wing Governments get up to especially when they have no real opposition and are in bed with the media. Remember Peter Reith and the Alsatian dogs? There are also new untried sedition laws.

Economic management is not the only measure of good government, Gareth. What about things like honesty, compassion, ensuring equality, protecting the environment and human rights, etc.

Now I'll get back under the bed clutching your post to my breast like a religious symbol!

Daniel Smythe, hopefully I can provide some answers.

“I am staggered that this article has generated such little response from Webdiarists. I was horrified by the account, felt uneasy.”

I was a touch confused, actually. What exactly was the protest against? I am not moved by the account of some unnamed “old man” having his arm twisted during a protest in which the PM’s car was pelted with eggs. Said “old man” should feel lucky he was in Australia. This sort of protest would be dealt with in much harsher terms in other parts of the world. When police are concerned about a situation, they act to take control. Sometimes people’s feelings get hurt and some might even get a shove, hardly signs of a “police state”. Perhaps Donna should attend a political protest in Uzbekistan, see what a real “police state” is like.

“Perhaps you are fearful that your emails are being monitored? I am.”

I’m not. What on earth is in your emails that gives you concern? Gary Glitter should be concerned about email monitoring, not law abiding citizens like ourselves.

“Are you scared of the new sedition laws, no longer sure about your right to free speech? I am.”

I’m not. This website is a great example of free speech. Most people say whatever they want.

“Are you frightened of being arrested, prosecuted, spending time in gaol for criticizing John Howard and his right-wing regime? I am.”

No, if that was realistic risk, then most of the posters on Webdiary would be gaol.

“Do you fear a knock at the door, being hustled into a waiting car, a free flight to some exotic location where torturers are waiting? I do.”

Are you serious?

“Fear is the hallmark of the Howard regime.”

No, sound economic management is.

Donna , I have followed your writings since your leaving of the Maitland fields and your pilgrim witnessing of what goes on in the world, a world we don't usually see and few bother to show us, yet what we should be so very concerned about because we are all people.

I have been amazed at your bravery and your stories have shocked me. It is a great shame that so few journalists have the courage to write about the real stories as you do. Perhaps our world would be a better place if perpetrators knew they would have their deeds spoken of in the Sunday papers and shamed. Maybe even held to account. Makes tennis day so uncomfortable.

I don't know what has happened to our police force. I have relatives and close friends in both forces and the teaching they are getting is a vilification stereotyping of protestors and a "they are out to get us" fear, weird really. Hence the nastiness back. Beware of feeding that. (I know it is wrong, but realities require pragmatic considerations.) Perhaps that is why the flag waving was forbidden, a mob can't be patriot Aussies can they? They have to be radical lefties, as Mike likes to say.

The anti-war marches were the first that I have ever gone on. A steep learning curve. There were people not part of the group who deliberately tried to cause trouble. Who organised them to come? To promote a "Yes War" message with jackboots full camouflage gear and professionally printed poster held by 6'4" bald very aggressive chap? The clue is to show one's conservatism, wear a suit to challenge stereotyping and to carry flags, to photo and isolate troublemakers and report them to police, and to employ persons to professionally record the entire spectacle with zoom cameras along the entire route.

Be aware that phones may well not work for certain reasons so phone cameras without storage may be useless. Be kind to police, they usually have one hell of a job to do, and challenge the stereotype they are fed. Just as one bad egg in the protest gives many a bad name, so do a few bad cops. We are all in this together: the fascists destroying our freedoms cannot be allowed to succeed.

Cheers.

Presumably these police were not the Feds but NSW police. They are the responsibility of the State govt, a gang of ALP apparatchiks much more connected to the big end of town and John Howard than to their citizens, let alone those who earn wages for a living. Howard was the cause of the demo, the demo may have included provocations, but if police are seizing flags and assaulting demonstrators it is the NSW Police minister and Premier that have explaining to do. (then again given the nature of the NSW police isn't there always a cover-up needed?)

One doubts any explanation will be proffered since the track record of the NSW ALP is simply one of trying to get re-elected and pandering to shock jocks to do so. From down here in Victoria I must say we have not seen any semblance of vision or capacity for creativity from NSW State Labor for a very long time. Off hand I can't think of the last idea that emerged from there that didn't come from a corporate flack. Maybe someone closer to the action can disabuse me of this perception. I've no wish to see Libs in power in NSW but god, you've really got to turf that current lot out, the smell from them is drifting so far it's even across the Murray.

For future ref in terms of tactics perhaps we can hope that a combination of better camera phones and sites like Webdiary will see thugs in uniform posted all over the internet before they even put the keys in the ignition of the divvy van.

A couple of years ago I instigated an event which unfortunately resulted in eggs hitting Howard's car. My intent had only been to have a musical "session" that might muck up the PM's "sound bite' for the day.

The egg-pelters weren't part of the main group of protesters, as implied by The Age's account of the event - a couple of people had run out a side-alley across the road, hurled their projectiles and scarpered.

The police response was to form a small cordon that kept us further from Mr Howards car. After the official party had gone inside we took our instruments and went back to the coffee-shop part of the building to bleed "Give peace a chance" (on fiddles and didgeridoos) into Howard's microphone.

The police left us alone. I guess they were more concerned at getting security right for the next event.

We know that times have changed, but perhaps the level of antagonisim perpetrated by the constabulary belies a change in attitude to an "incapacitate first, ask questions later" policy regarding civil disobedience.

I'd still like to believe that with a group of policemen with the right mentality monitoring activity, protest events can still be conducted with dignity, eggs or no eggs.

It would be remiss not to remind that in the case of my little "session", it was the eggs that reached the national media.

I am staggered that this article has generated such little response from Webdiarists. I was horrified by the account, felt uneasy.

Perhaps you are fearful that your emails are being monitored? I am.

Are you scared of the new sedition laws, no longer sure about your right to free speech? I am.

Are you frightened of being arrested, prosecuted, spending time in gaol for criticizing John Howard and his right-wing regime? I am.

Do you fear a knock at the door, being hustled into a waiting car, a free flight to some exotic location where torturers are waiting? I do.

When police begin denying protestors their rights, try to stop them holding flags, begin assaulting old men, I feel we are already on the slippery slope towards... who knows where it might end but I suspect it's not good.

Fear is the hallmark of the Howard regime. Coincidentally, it is the weapon most favoured by all dictators.

Fear is usually combined with force.

Were the anti-Vietnam war demonstrations a "walk in the Park"?

Reading Donna's article was a chilling experience. I kept thinking about the Alsatian dogs and the men in balaclavas and the sinister Peter Reith.

What was even more chilling was the comment by Roger that Howard was not to blame. Who does Roger think has been running the country for the last ten years, carefully shaping it and manipulating it to suit the greedy ambitions of elitist, rich, right-wing capitalists, carefully using a balance of greed and fear to garner votes?

If someone like Howard can fool a good man like Roger so easily then God help this country. Perhaps when the death squads appear and the sedition laws are used to spirit away dissenters to torture chambers overseas the penny will drop as to how evil Howard and his cronies really are.

Wake up, Australia! This is not Play School. It's our freedom that is being threatened.

Though the article doesn't mention it, the media report that Howard's car was pelted with eggs. Perhaps the old man wasn't carrying eggs, but he could easily be classified as collateral damage.

I'm pretty sure that many aborigines would claim that this is standard operating procedure for the police, and that things have improved substantially in the last few decades. It would appear that under John Howard, the police have simply become non-racist.

Howard invaded Iraq because we told him that we wanted a booming economy and cheap oil. If we really believe we are a democracy, then we should stop blaming John Howard for doing what he was told to do - he is an excellent public servant who understands his master's need for deniability.