Daphne O’Brien, I wonder if the two words, ‘multiculturalism’ and ‘assimilation’, have not – in at least the political sense – morphed into something that is diametrically opposed to each other. To a large extent the word ‘multiculturalism’ has become the preferred stance of the left while the right would prefer to see ‘assimilation’.

The reality is the word ‘assimilation’ is not quite what the right think it is. It means ‘to bring or come into harmony’ or ‘adjust or become adjusted’ according to the Collins English Dictionary. It does NOT mean to change into something else; or into something that one simply is not. All too often the expectation from the right is that ‘they’ should become like ‘us’. This is something that is a lot easier said than done. In demanding that ‘they’ become like ‘us’ we are actually then calling upon ‘them’ to leave their cultural baggage behind. This is the expectation and, indeed, often the demand of the right-wing.

The left on the other hand invite all-comers to Australia and to bring their culture with them. That way we can share, or not share if one doesn’t wish to, each others’ cultures. The name of the game here is tolerance; tolerance and acceptance of each others’ cultures – multiculturalism. The upshot of all this is, we can have our multiculturalism and we can also assimilate inasmuch that we live in harmony and do adjust but adjust to accept that there are differences and to accept those differences.

For too long white Judeao-Christian Anglospherians have demanded that those that come to Australia become ‘Australian’ culturally but were arrogant enough not to do the same thing that they demand of others when they first came here themselves a couple of hundred years ago.

The majority of posts to this thread are focusing solely on the behaviour of the mob at Cronulla. Whilst they displayed breathtaking savagery in attacking innocent people based on their appearance, and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, the story has now grown beyond the events on Sunday at Cronulla.

It is now abundantly clear that there has been an organised, methodical and deliberately violent and destructive response from the Lakemba boys. These men are effectively engaging in urban warfare in retaliation for the weekend riots, and have invaded the Eastern suburbs in organised groups of ARMED men with the intention of causing serious harm to anyone they can get their hands on.

And they have already go their hands on quite a few.

I wonder if you all realise the significance of this? These violent idiots have taken up arms and invaded several Sydney suburbs in 'retribution' for an idiotic drunken rampage that was condemned by almost ALL Australians.

Some of the criminals roaming my suburb last night were even carrying Glock handguns for crying out loud!

These thugs need to be stopped right now. Their reaction is vastly disproportionate to the original act (and is being carried out in the wrong bloody suburb anyway) and they are currently a direct threat to the safety of me and my family. As a young resident of the Coogee/Maroubra area I can assure you that our population will not tolerate many more nights of these pitched and deliberate attacks.

We need to send a message to all Aussies that racism and race riots are despicable - but we need to more strongly condemn the unbelievably violent and militant escalation that has immediately come from the Lebanese in Lakemba.

Andy George said: "'assimilate' into what?"

I believe this needs answering. Multiculturalism has only been an enforced "politically correct" position since, as was discussed earlier, the Hawke/Keating days.

Pauline Hanson was strongly against this, preferring assimilation, and does anyone remember that she got 1% of the Australian vote?

Earlier today I discussed the riots with a workmate who used to live and work in that area as a young man. I asked him what he thought the cause was.

His answer? It was basic. Race. People of Middle Eastern background have congregated in that area and it has been a problem for 20 odd years.

My workmate has a Philippine wife, who I know quite well. Years ago she was telling us of the problems with the Muslim sector there. I heard this again from some friends who had just visited their sponsored child over there.

This is NOT what I want to be writing about. However, I believe when immigrants were assimilated into the community, as was suggested in a previous post, then queried by Andy George, Australians were able to overcome any aversion to someone "different" in their neighbourhoods, and I guess they had time to take their blinkers off and move on.

You didn't see the takeover of certain suburbs (think Asians in Springvale and parts of Richmond for instance, Italians and Greeks in Carlton...)

When minority groups do this, and I can understand their reasoning, it limits any form of assimilation.

What do I see as assimilation?

Children learning to accept "the other" at school, workmates and neighbours accepting "the other", and most importantly, "the other" finding acceptance and friendship with the rest of the community.

Of course all this has to be encouraged at home, and a child will have real difficulty if he comes from a racist family. And some do. That is a fact, no matter how we would like to ignore it.

In ideal conditions, we see positive examples of this all over Australia, creating a climate in which it's possible to learn a great deal from one another.

Another point needs to be made. Why is it that this "multiculturalism" is not practised in the countries from whence these people came? The easy answer is that we wouldn't want to. But that's not always the case. However, if we did, it is a fact that many other countries make it extremely difficult for immigrants to stay in their countries.

I say all this, because I spoke in depth with a reasonable, practical workmate and he made me think.

Without a doubt these are the problems I see John Howard playing on when he uses the racist card. No matter how many times he assures us his policies are not racist, we all know that they are, and as I said in a previous post, he is fostering a side of Australians that is not healthy, and by teaching fear, encouraging others to see race as a problem.

If there is a problem with multiculturalism as we have it now, then it started in the Hawke/Keating era and is being brought to its worst case conclusion under Howard.

I would appreciate any feedback on this post. Unlike my first post on this topic, I found this one to be particularly difficult. I just felt I had to be honest following the aforementioned discussion.

He says he does not think the violence will harm Australia's international reputation in the long-term.

"You have outbreaks of domestic discord - that happens to every country and when it occurs there's publicity," he said.

"But people make a judgment about this country over a longer term. They don't make judgments about Australia based on incidents that occur over a period of a few days." John Howard (source:ABC online, 13/12/05)

I hate to burst the PM's bubble, but that is exactly what happens.

Meanwhile Federal Attorney-General Philip Ruddock has been quizzed about racism in Australia during an interview about the Sydney riots broadcast around the world.

Mr Ruddock described the violence as exuberant youths breaking laws.

He has told the BBC World Service the unrest is unacceptable and alien to Australians.

"I don't think Australia is a particularly racist society," he said.

"I don't claim that we're perfect but think in terms of our willingness to accept people from different backgrounds, different cultures, different religions, we've been able to demonstrate that that can be done very well". Phillip Ruddock (source: ABC online, 13/12/05).

Paddling in "de Nile"? Guess what dudes. Doesn't matter how much you try to downplay the events in the last few days, the fact remains that you are now out of control. Remember Mickey Mouse as the sorcerer's apprentice in Fantasia? Whoa! How are you going to stop those brooms and the flood? Too bad you have no one to come and wave a magic wand for you.

Andy George, "assimilate" into what?

John Howard, as Prime Minister of Australia, must take full responsibility for the current racial tensions which have come to a head recently in Sydney. Howard’s deliberate policy of creating fear and distrust in the community has resulted in hatreds bubbling to the surface of Australia’s social structures.

Much of the violence in Sydney over last weekend was helped along by Howard’s friend and radio talkback host, the racist and fascist Alan Jones who proudly concedes that it was he “…who led this charge here.” Howard himself, while condemning the violence and the actions of all the participants, has pulled up short of condemning it as racism saying, “…but I'm not going to put a general tag of racism on the Australian community”.

Gerard Henderson, Howard’s knee jerk apologist, tries desperately to endorse the Prime Minister’s denials by downplaying the obvious racism by saying, “This is not so much a clash of civilisations but, rather, a series of disputes between some aggressive Australians of Lebanese Muslim background and a group of aggressive (and drunk) Australians of Anglo-Celtic background,” as if the fact that the belligerents are polarised by their racial background is just incidental and that too much should not be construed by this fact.

The reality is Howard and his fascist supporters in the media have succeeded in polarising a nation. One more step down the road to a fascist Australia.

Damian Lataan, you say:

“Howard’s racist ‘anti-terrorism’ laws have so successfully marginalised Australians whose heritage is Middle Eastern that we are now in a situation where mob violence has taken over the beaches and streets of parts of Sydney. The sight of thousands of drunken hooligans claiming to be ‘true Aussies’ was really quite sickening and reminiscent of the thugs dressed in brown shirts that chased Jews and communists around the streets of Munich.

“Racism has been rife in Australia for many years but it seems Howard and his anti-Islam propaganda and policies have taken it to new heights as we take yet another step down the road to his fascist Australia.”

I believe there has always been a certain amount of racism in Australia. I would not be being honest if I didn’t admit that. Which is why I believe Andy George was correct when he said there was an “inadequate focus on assimilation”.

However, Howard, the ultimate racist, has used these inherent problems to great effect. While assuring us his policies are not racist, the underlying message is that they are indeed. I have seen what this message does to some of our young people, and the not so young too.

G Phillips, you say: “Howard's fascist racist chickens are coming home to roost as events in Cronulla evidence.” I agree.

And then you say: "And, whadd'ya know, Metoo Beasley is saying much the same. Sickening.” I agree there too.

However, Angela Ryan has addressed the situation pro-actively. She says: “Has racial rioting been pushed by the media and the local NAZIs? Time to have another look at all the Moslem vilification going on. Who must take responsibility for the increase in racial tension? Are there clever PR manipulations going on? It has happened before against other minority groups when it suits the political climate.”

I don’t think these riots are occurring “out of the blue”. Rather, I would think there is planning on a world scale. God help us when they reach America, which they are sure to do, especially following the disaster in New Orleans, and disastrous lack of aid that has followed. Many already alienated blacks and other minorities will be raging right now, and ripe for any planned “rioting”.

And finally David Weird, your comments make no sense. Don’t you know that the people “passing out beer, and waving the flag" (hey that’s an Americanism isn’t it? Do Aussies normally wave flags en masse?) are simply the puppets, used by those higher up the food chain for their particularly vile purposes?

Do you think for one minute that these young people would be able to organise a riot on such a massive scale all by themselves? I doubt it.

Thank you John Howard for playing on our weaknesses instead of helping to raise the moral standards of our country to higher levels, surely the hallmark of a great leader.

As Silvia Jackson says so aptly: “Welcome to the new Australia”.

Damian Lataan, your last post clearly showed that you have comprehension problems, it's no wonder you don't understand.

Karen Stephenson, the public school system is run by the Labor Government and they are the Left. The curriculum is designed by the left, the environment is prepared by the left. The standards are set by the left.

Yep, sounds very left to me. Teachers have no real control, they have to do as they are told - by the left.

Was watching the events of the weekend.

I noticed on the news last night that the neo-nazis were blamed, the Lebanese/Arabic community was blamed - even the media came in for a bit of a serve about its contribution to the fracas.

Now the violence is deplorable by any standard of a civilised society and the Prime Minister (and the Opposition Leader) are right to come out and say so in measured terms.

However, there is one glaringly obvious contribution to this whole mess that nobody in the media is picking up and discussing - and that is the contribution to the "us" and "them" mentality which is made by the recent anti-terrorist legislative response.

Going on some of the anecdotal evidence in the news media last night, there were Lebanese men indicating they were threatened because of suggestions that might be carrying bombs and/or seeking to do Australia harm - and this is the very question which Howard, Beazley and other politicians remain damningly silent on at this point in time.

A couple of months ago, we were asking the question about why Paris was burning - and now the Federal and State governments to some extent must take a good hard look at themselves and their contributions to the current climate of fear, suspicion and hatred and ask "Why is it that Syney is simmering?" and make some constructive contribution to redressing the problems rather than reigniting the cheap law and order auction that Morris Iemma announced when he indicated he wanted to heighten the penalty for attacking life guards (in line with what exists for doing harm to police, emergency services officer and other public officials).

I sat reading and watching accounts of yesterday’s reprehensible events at Cronulla with tears streaming down my face. This is Australia? This is my country?

I am the daughter of Italian immigrants who arrived here in 1955. My parents often spoke of the racism that they were subjected to over the years, but also of the many wonderful Anglo-Australians (and others of ethnic origins) that they encountered. I remember my mother, aged 73, watching the opening ceremony of the Sydney Olympics with tears streaming down her face – not of sadness, but of joy. You see, my mother was Italian. She loved her country of origin and was proud of her Italian culture, but she held a fierce pride where Australia was concerned. My mother considered herself Italo-Australian, embracing both her cultures equally.

I too embrace my Italian heritage but I am Australian. I was born here and have lived here most of my life. I love my country. I love the rich cross-cultures that we have created through our multi-culturalism. The riches that ethnic communities have added to our culture are immeasurable. Could you imagine your world without the culinary delights from Lebanon, Italy, Greece, Vietnam, etc, etc? The musical influences, the fashion, the family values? The list goes on. Can you imagine living in an Australia of 50 years ago? How dull. How limited.

We are a community that, to our credit, was until recently based on religious and ethnic tolerance. This is no longer the case. And unfortunately, it is because of a very loud, angry and racist minority. I believe that these people do not represent the greater community. Sound familiar? It is the same position that Lebanese-Australian community is in with the “bad element” of their community. You see, it is not about the race of the people involved in hooliganism, but of the individuals involved.

Sadly, when a government, aided by the media, fuels a people’s fanaticism, this is what happens. And let’s face it; nationalism can be fanaticism in its infancy.

We, the greater number, have a responsibility to stop this insanity. This has to be tackled from so many different angles that it sometimes seems hopeless. But it isn’t. We have it within our grasp. We, the majority of all Australians (no matter what flavour), have to make ourselves heard. We cannot rest whilst our society crumbles around us. We must not allow the loud minority the power to alter our magnificent land into a sad, mirror image of America.

Let’s not beat around the bush. What happened at Cronulla yesterday was an example of racial vilification. Even if our Prime Minister “stops short” of labelling the group as racist. Did he not watch the footage of our “proud Australians”, drunk and disgusting, chanting the odious “Aussie, Aussie, Aussie”? They took the National anthem and Waltzing Matilda and convoluted them and distorted them into a method of attack. Yes I believe he is responsible. But no more than I feel the ALP leader is resposible. He too has boarded the "terrorist threat" bandwagon. It's a vote puller isn't it?

Welcome to the new Australia...

Jolanda Challita, so, the majority of the kids are being educated by the Left.

Here's a list of the public Highschools in the Shire; Caringbah High School, Cronulla High School, Burra neer School, Cronulla High School, Endeavour High School, Engadine High School, Gymea technical college, Heathcote High School, Jannali High School, Kirrawee High, Sutherland High, Lucas Heights Community School, Port Hacking High School. Sylvania High School, Tabor College and Woolooware.

I'd like you to back up your comment and name these so called Left leaning schools and also prove it. Talk's cheap. My family live in the shire, my children go to these schools, my 18 year old recieved the racist random text today from an unknown source and was totally and utterly disgusted. My three public school educated children get their social values from their family upbringing and I dare say the thugs at Cronulla and Maroobra over the weekend got theirs the same way from their families.

Andy George: “I am not being racist as I have many Lebanese friends.”

Do you know how many times that was said on Sydney talk back radio today? I don’t but it was plenty. Apparently every one who lives in Cronulla actually works in Lakemba and has at least two mates from Bankstown.

Now I am no homophobe I have gay friends, but did ya hear the one about the poofter who walked into a bar?

Jolanda Challita, your last post was totally incoherent. Would you like to try again with something that makes sense?

Just thought people might be interested that a person posted to USENET today in an attempt to organise another 'gathering' like Cronulla. I'm not going to reproduce the message and give them the free publicity, but I have attached the message headers, so someone can have a go at tracking down the sender. It was sent via an anonymous remailer, but the message does include a hardwired path (which may well be bogus).

----- HEADERS BELOW --------

Path: nnrp.waia.asn.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!news.wiretrip.org!news.dizum.com!sewer-output!mail2news-x4!mail2news-x3!mail2news-x2!mail2news
From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
remailer administrator at <abuse@dizum.com>.
Newsgroups: aus.politics,aus.general,aus.culture.true-blue,aus.tv
Subject: Cronulla is only the start!
Message-ID: <56a443494a0a393eebbfe0a4a5d029eb@dizum.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:20:06 +0100 (CET)
Mail-To-News-Contact: abuse@dizum.com
Organization: mail2news@dizum.com
Xref: nnrp.waia.asn.au aus.politics:361001 aus.general:50699 aus.culture.true-blue:27015 aus.tv:312907

What a huge surprise to see you blaming John Howard for this. Let me guess - he was the one passing out beer, waving the flag and inciting the crowd to violence ?

You idiots are like a stuck record...

Damian Lataan, when are you going to realise that Policies are a piece of paper and, they are not worth the paper they are written on.

A piece of paper doesn't cause this type of trouble.

Jolanda Challita seems to think that, “…the majority of the kids are being educated by the Left.” What on earth are you talking about? Apart from anything else, if they had been taught by Left-wing teachers we wouldn’t be witnessing the disgusting behaviour of RIGHT-WING neo-Nazis, fascists and other assorted thugs now!

Howard has taken Australia to new levels of hatred and bigotry and polluted a multiculturalism that was beginning to be an accepted characteristic of Australian society. The new racism of religion and culture, thanks to Howard’s policies on refugees and so-called ‘terrorism’, have successfully polarised Australian society.

“…educated by the left”, …what garbage!

Fiona Reynolds, it's not the teachers that are all left. It's the bureaucrats in the State Government system! The teachers, just like the kids, are being failed by the system.

Jolanda Challita, I would be most interested to see some evidence in support of your implied propositions that (1) most teachers in the state system are supporters of the ALP or (gasp!) the Democrats or (even louder gasp!) the Greens, and (2) most teachers in the private system are adherents of the Coalition.

Damian Lataan, the vast majority of the kids here in the Sutherland Shire are Educated in the Public School system.

So, the majority of the kids are being educated by the Left.

Can't you see what is happening to the standards in Society? How can you only blame our Prime Minister John Howard?

Re the Sydney riots - the causes

We're seeing in Sydney the payback for the Hawke/Keating-era wholesale immigration of Lebanese immigrants as ALP-leaning voters, together with the Al Grassby driven policy of multicultalism with inadequate focus on assimilation. The resulting cultral separation has led to the 'Leb gangster' culture with intimidation of 'Skippys' and the shame of the Sydney pack rapes. This is exacerbated by inadequate ALP NSW policing.

I am not being racist as I have many Lebanese friends and it's a tragedy that the good people are being tarred by the gangster element.

It's clear to me however that we are reaping the whirlwind for the ill-considered NSW and Hawke-era policies. Sure there are the Aussie surfie rioters but let's not kid ourselves, the root cause of this has been brewing for some time, and it's not the vigilantes who have brewed it. We need a heavy police presence here otherwise this will go to LA style gangs.

Howard’s racist ‘anti-terrorism’ laws have so successfully marginalised Australians whose heritage is Middle Eastern that we are now in a situation where mob violence has taken over the beaches and streets of parts of Sydney. The sight of thousands of drunken hooligans claiming to be ‘true Aussies’ was really quite sickening and reminiscent of the thugs dressed in brown shirts that chased Jews and communists around the streets of Munich.

Racism has been rife in Australia for many years but it seems Howard and his anti-Islam propaganda and policies have taken it to new heights as we take yet another step down the road to his fascist Australia.

"The Croation Australians or rather, Australian Croatians, who choose to play against the Australian team rather than for it for some reason really annoy me, perhaps anger. It seems a betrayal, but perhaps is more a display of where real loyalties and aren't we the fools for expecting otherwise?"

I find it strange that people calling for tolerance towards Muslims and an end to racial and cultural vilification would simultaneously express incongruous and, I would hope to think, unintentionally racist opinions towards another ethnic group.

I would have thought that the elimination of racial and cultural vilification would not be exclusive to one particular group, but rather that we are all free to embrace and be proud of our heritage, whether we be Muslim, Croatian, Anglo-Saxon, or of any other cultural background that you may care to mention.

I got to thinking of how some posters on this site have expressed support of those who have betrayed our country in a far more serious manner. A hypothetical question... if those Australian Croatians were incarcerated along with David Hicks in Guantanamo Bay, would posters here still be feeling annoyance and anger?

Or is it less of a betrayal to your country to train with terrorists than to kick a ball around for the 'wrong' team?

Howard's fascist racist chickens are coming home to roost as events in Cronulla evidence. Howard must regret having to make his weak implausible denial of responsibility now on the eve of his appearance in Malaysia to attend the East Asian Summit. The announcement of once again granting Colombo Plan style generous university scholarships to Asian students may now go unnoticed in Asia (though presumably certain Australian students will note it). The timing is ghastly, poor Johny, more so after all that clever non-diplomacy over Nguyen Tuong Van has Singapore Inc pleading Australia's cause at the ASEAN meeting in Malaysia now.

Mr Howard also dismissed any suggestion his government's warnings about home-grown terrorists had fuelled the rampage.

"It is impossible to know how individuals react but everything this government's said about home-grown terrorism has been totally justified," Mr Howard said.

"It is a potential threat. To suggest that one should remain silent ... knowing what I know because that might antagonise someone else is a complete failure of leadership." Nation not racist: Howard by Samantha Baden, Courier Mail online, 13:55 12Dec05

At the end of this Courier Mail article Howard is quoted as saying "Nobody in this country has a right to take the law into their own hands." And, whadd'ya know, Metoo Beasley is saying much the same. Sickening.

Hi Angela, your comments made me smile. In the wee hours of the morning as I was putting that story into the round-up, I found myself having the same annoyed reaction, and I'd count myself as someone who cares little about the nationality I have (by chance) been born into, and even less about football. Socialisation runs deep hey?

And, I've been meaning to acknowledge your appreciation of TDB for some time now. Given our testy beginning, it shows a generosity of spirit. Thank you.

And, to local news:

Also, do you have any links to the original episode of attack upon the Lifesavers, who was arrested for that or alleged responsible and since then what comments have been published from shock jocks etc.

Has racial rioting been pushed by the media and the local NAZIs? Time to have another look at all the moslem vilification going on. Who must take responsibility for the increase in racial tension? Are there clever PR manipulations going on? It has happened before against other minority groups when it suits the political climate.

People may support hate speech and hate tricks but I do not even against people I have no common ground with in beliefs nor background nor in treatment of women. Nothing justifies this sneaky vilification occuring. I hope our up to now flawed leadership will see the great danger in unleashing such a powderkeg of racist hate within our own community and take severe steps to stop it.

Starting with questioning the motives of the editor of the Murdoch Telegraph in juxtapositioning the events and then the rape trial, and then enforcing respectful standards within radical pulpits and shockjocks.

There, umbrella up again.

How would you feel if you were Lebanese or Moslem in our current society? They feel scared and how can this be allowed?

Hi Wayne. Great wrap as usual.

The Croation Australians or rather, Australian Croatians, who choose to play against the Australian team rather than for it for some reason really annoy me, perhaps anger. It seems a betrayal, but perhaps is more a display of where real loyalties and aren't we the fools for expecting otherwise?

It is clear that war and sport are the two tests of one's National loyalties. Perhaps it is time that we stopped accepting Duals for Australian citizenship. At least if someone uses taxpayers money to be trained up over years then they can pay it back if they chose to play against Australia (Tennis is a good example, methinks).

Personally I wouldn't waste any public money on sport elite training as there is no benefit to the total population from a health point of view and certainly no increase in international sportsmanship, as seen by a few Olympic tricks and Cricket deeds and even in elite sports men in the Rugby area on Coffs harbour trips-again a scandal!

I would instead spend the money on encouraging the average fat chap of all ages to become involved in exercise and activity rather than armchair stress watching others. Tax dollars better spent.

From US Isolated by Stance on Global Warming (at Forbes):

Eileen Claussen, president of the private Pew Center on Global Climate Change and a former U.S. climate negotiator in the Clinton administration, said the current U.S. position reflects an unhealthy tendency toward unilateralism, mistrust of international treaties and a belief that the only things that will make any difference are investments in new technologies. "I think most of the rest of the world doesn't believe that for a second," she said. "It's something else that's
driving this, and it's not rational. I think it's ideology."

Clement's cartoon in Financial Review Dec 12th is on a similar theme:

"Climate change: Big business is no longer prepared to sit back and do nothing. From now on we're going to lean forward and look concerned ..."